Zaadz' Business Model: (aka: how we’re gonna make money)

Well articulated.  Great stuff.  Think big and execute one thing at a time.  You’re off to a great start!

bravo! =)

agreeing with both of the above!!  THIS is something I can get very excited about being a part of… well thought out, well planned, and with the power of intention behind this… success is already there… fruition takes time… manifesting something of this magnitude is pure magic!!

be well,
~K

Count me in, Bri!

Me too. If there’s anything you need help with, I’m beyond on board – inspired is an understatement. I know you wrote you’ll be transparent about this, but I’d still just like to make my committment explicit. Again, thank you. It’s incredible being here.

Hi there,

I was excited to read this - excited to see that there are other people thinking hard about what “integral business” might look like on the ground, I guess. And I’m stoked that you’re building (we’re building) a community of people who care about changing the world in an intelligent way (Care2Connect kinda makes me cringe).

All that said, you lost me at the end there, with the “Zaadz becomes Starbucks” part of the vision. Sorry, I know that’s a crude way to put it, and you deserve better than that. But to be honest, that part made me shiver. I hope you guys DO make good money doing work that feeds your soul, but I don’t want to see you become the one-stop brand for the people who are questing passionately to make themselves better people by spending money to build a new improved personality. I can’t really sign up for that. I’ve seen what happens when you cater to the market of people who can afford to spend money on their “enlightenment”.

Maybe that’s just what capitalism requires, and maybe I’m naive. But I’m not sure you’ll be able to do the Oasis and the Resorts and the Publishing and still be authentic. Maybe I’m the one who still doesn’t really understand the Integral Business Model yet - and if so, I’d be happy for someone to try and help me see.

Sorry to be saying all this on my second day as a member - not really my style, but I was called! :) I very much look forward to more honest and generative dialogue on this platform - I’m stoked about the tools and (most of) the vision you’ve built here. :)

Sarah

Hey again,

Many thanks for your thoughtful response. I blogged about this conversation from a meta level last night - http://sarahpullman.com/zaadz - but I’ve been somewhat stuck as to how to articulate the ways that the grand vision doesn’t sit quite right with me. (Plus I’m intimidated to be debating with a philosopher. ;))

I don’t think it’s necessarily that I believe that big = bad. But let’s be honest, there are a lot of examples of bad big out there. Big tends to lead away from local living economies, though I do believe that’s gonna have to change if we’re going to save the world… I guess I’ve just seen small ventures get big, and necessarily give up something of the vision and spirit that made them beautiful. And so I wonder whether the realities of growth are such that it’s just very difficult to do it “right”.

I was struggling to figure out how to explain myself and my feelings about big business, but just decided that that’s not actually the part that I need to talk about. What rubs me the wrong way is the part where you say We plan to create the world’s leading self-development company and the most recognized and trusted brand in the world.

I’m having a big debate with myself in my head and I keep writing things and then deleting them. I think I can imagine your rationale here. Part of me thinks that by aspiring to this, you’re just aspiring to profit from the masses of people who don’t understand what true personal transformation requires, and think that they can buy their way into it with vacations, books, etc. Living with spirit doesn’t require a “lifestyle of health and sustainability” with all its trappings.

But then part of me thinks that people are always gonna want vacations, and if they can choose a vacation package offered by an ethical company instead of a trip on a dirty polluting cruise ship or something, then hey, why not. If they’re gonna buy books as part of their ongoing efforts to reform their personalities and become better, more spiritual people, then sure, let’s offer them some books and better the money should circulate within a conscious community.

If your intentions are clear and your ethics are good, then I’m willing to get behind it and say “go for it”. If we don’t believe we can change things, then what are we doing? I just have visions of the middle-aged, upper-middle-class women who spend lots of cash on their spiritual betterment, and fear that you’ll end up being a bland, easy-to-digest brand that will have lost most of the people who signed on at the get-go long ago.

I realize I’m expressing some pessimism, which isn’t really what I want to identify myself with. I have to believe that the next couple of decades will see lots of business run by people I can relate to, connect to, believe in. My friends, my colleagues… maybe even myself. So I think this dialogue is important, and I’d love to hear other voices chime in, but I also don’t want to be pissing in the cornflakes of someone who’s really trying to do something right.

So bring it on… !

With best wishes and much respect,
Sarah

so what’s wrong with Starbucks? hahaha. seriously, just read this. still recovering from my vacation hangover. thanks Brian for addressing my business model inquiry. hats off to you guys for the transparency. if and when Zaadz hit it big, it could very well be a flagship example of what an “integral business model” could be like. godspeed.

I cringed at the same lines as Sarah. I think I sensed a potential: for your approach to become flip and formulaic. This often happens to business that are engaged in the LOHAS type market. When you talk about “hundreds of ‘zaadz notes’ on everything from goal setting to taoism…” I hear alarm bells. The way you state the goal above could be interpreted as a flippancy of attitude towards some very important subjects.

Taoism, sexuality, etc. These aren’t things that exist so you can crunch out well branded books. They aren’t things that exist to be options on the menu of an exlusive spa. They can be approached and addressed by books, and they can experienced in spas… but be careful not to reduce them.

I have worked as a journalist, and I’m aware of how the needs of a journalist can corrupt one’s relationship to people and important stories. The starving child becomes the great picture. The flood becomes the big story. The image of the saint is used because it “looks exotic.” This is exactly what happens to business like yours. Be careful.

Will the next zaadz notes subject be chosen based entirely on what subject is hottest? Will the author be chosen based on which has the most popular recognician? Are you really going to “pop” retreats into locations based simply on what is considered exotic? I would respect the initiative more if you were going to pick places that were most appropriate for sustainable development.

Are you selling spirituality? There are a million ways to do so, few of them don’t reduce spirituality in the process. I’ve been to the buddhis temples in Thailand, where they’re selling little plastic buddhas, fortunes, and everything else you could possibly sell in a temple. People leave the temple with their pockets full of junk. Is that what you hope to be, on a giant global scale? It’s very easy to justify doing so. You just have to say that the little plastic buddhas will remind them of Buddha. I don’t buy it.  

I think this will be an ongoing part of your work, keeping a hold of your real vision and values, and not letting them become pieces of the business plan. As a business owner I know this is a danger, as the needs and stresses of business can be overwhelming. The moment I become conviced that you’re seeing things through the eyes of the business plan first, and buddha is something to stick on a mug, I’m out of here.

All that said, I don’t see why you can’t do it the right way. I just joined zaadz and I’m hoping you’re the right people for the job. I would love to see you rise into an ecomonically influention position while keeping true to your real values. I think it is an incredible experiment, and I hope to contribute to it. :)

Much love and keep up the great work!

nick

Brian,

Thank you. I have a much better context for the lines I was reacting to. I still think you will face the challenges I mention, but you’ve given me more reason to think you can do it. (I’ve even signed up for your thinkarete newsletter).

I’ll take the time to look further into all of this. I’ve spent a lot of time thinking and writing about communications and social networking… and would be thrilled if you were doing what I’ve wanted to see :)

Brian…

Thanks so much for writing your long response up there - I really enjoyed reading it and feel all fired up now. (which is a good thing, as you’ll know if you read my recent slightly pathetic blog post here on Zaadz…)

I’m excited to be an “early adopter” here on Zaadz and look forward to following along. How about making a single RSS feed for all the interesting stuff that happens around here? That would really save me some time. ;) (mostly kidding… i know you guys can’t read my mind. Yet.)

Sarah

Greetings Brian,

I am enjoying your words and the visions for your company.  I really appreciate your desire for posativity and creativity.  I have been communicating with David who I believe is on your team, or at least seems to know more than I do.  I read a bit about your plans and though I am seeing great intentions, I have some concerns.

I have been a member of Tribe.net for over a year and have participated in its growth.  I am also a community leader and co-founder of the Oracle Gatherings in Seattle (www.oraclegatherings.com).  The Oracle Gatherings itself is one organization in a strong network of free thinking and creative organizations that spans the west coast, and beyond.  In the beginning, I saw Tribe.net as a wonderful place to stay connected with the already existing network I have described.  Then I realized that each moment of our participation was generating value for Tribe.net to leverage larger advertisers.  Being a business man myself, I understand the process.  Now with ads in every post and very few of them representing the alternative lifestyles we actively create, I can’t help feeling like a cheap whore… even more so now that I have gotten so many in my community to participate.

So, I come to you after reading your plans to incorporate ads in the future of Zaadz.com.  I am aware that this is a business for you and your team.  I strongly believe that those who build great tools should be supported, and what I am seeing so far is beautiful and well intended.  My previous experience has me asking questions that I want to share with you in hopes that it will strengthen your mission and offer another perspective.

Please, can you address my insecurity with your model of selling pieces of my attention to the buyer of your choosing, even if you are choosing them wisely?  What will stop you from becoming a new age Tribe.net?  Are there any other models like premium memberships without ads that might allow people more control over their experience?  How can users like myself be of value to you beyond the value of my attention?

There is a large network of creative thinkers looking for a place to share, connect and grow without entanglement in the system we are trying so hard to recreate.  How can we participate so we don’t fall victim to the Tribe.net bait and switch?  How can we help you create a strong and effective tool for raising consciousness and creating real change now?

Thank you for your time, and I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.  I am excited to participate and watch Zaadz.com develop.  I am available to share ideas and discuss possibilities.

Sincerely,

Osiris Indriya

Now I can stand behind this… There’s no shame in making money doing what we love… It’s the American Dream in action… Too often, people have to “sell thier souls” to the dream while others other sell “others’ sould” to make thiers happen…

In this business plan you plan on doing neither… Your sponsor will be promoting things that your base will not only use, but enjoy using…Now that’s good marketing…I would love to see this community grown… I know it’s still in the infantile stages… But as Brian said to me when he invited me here… “I can’t wait to tell you what we have in store.”

Rock on!!!!

Great initiative, great stuff here already, give me a shout later on when I’ve settled in some. Convivial capitalism, like a triangle of sorts, where ecology, economy and education are the three corners, and people and community is somewhere inside that triangle. But that’s just me, plenty of other geometric figures around, at least that’s what the math teachers I’ve met have told me. Best wishes towards both meeting and exceeding the numbers Brian.

John

Hey all,

been reading your business model and thought I’d put in my 2 pence worth into the discussion on spirituality and capitalism

ok, well I’m not overtly anti-capitalist as such and I fully understand the need to get paid to live and make things happen within the current way of things.

However I do wonder just how much real and meaningful change can come about with out challenging to roots of the system we are currently living within.

If you accept that the way we now live is unsustainable and that it is capitalism and consumerism that are the current driving forces behind our unsuitable living,
then an uncritical embracing of capitalism is in my mind a risky thing because you  could end up becoming  that which needs  to  change…

however  I  have been reading a book call the 3rd wave be A. Toffler, in it he talks about the spend of agriculture as the 1st wave and industrialism as the 2nd and make s the point that both Communist and capitalist industrial countries are-
(or where, the book was published in 1980) -equally drive by market forces..
and when i think on it then I’d say that I believe it is the classical economic model of ‘progress’ as define almost exclusively by GDP and market growth that is the real danger.

I guess what I’m unsure of is whether this is intrinsically tied to capitalism or whether we just perhaps need to redefine our relationship to capitalism from a more holistic and integral point of view.

perhaps we need to define a new more just and sustainable economic model and then name it so that when we talk about making money we can draw a distinct line between the new model and much of the harm cause in part by the old.

sorry bit of an rant but I’d be interested to know how you feel / think

all the best

Jon.

thanks for posting this rather then leaveing folks in the dark. i find it all a bit scattered at this point but maybe i’m just reading your excitement wrong :-) so all i have to add from what i’ve learned in my online experience is this:

don’t let the egos take over, listen to the people (i see you’re already doing this) and never foreget the little guy especially when you reach the top…. and you should do great things.

with great power comes great responsibility ;-)

I’m the little guy.  I’m just a chihuahua

Great ideas and good luck.  Sounds like something that I’d love to get behind.  Make a posting if you guys ever decide to go public.

As I see that the question of ‘integrity’, of being integral, is making it’s way around, I’ll add this excerpt from a post that was added to this thread:
http://fizay.zaadz.com/blog/2006/1/sionara#comments

My post at 33days later - excerpt from The Elephant in the Room:

“The drug addict thinks in the short term, forgetting about the harm to his or
her body or the destruction of friendship, love and trust that the habit
inevitably entails. In the same way, the growth addict ignores the damage to
the planet and the erosion of any sense of civilised community that arises from
the relentless drive for economic expansion. The products of growth never
satisfy the individual, and the pursuit of growth makes societies increasingly
dysfunctional and destroys the possibility of global co-operation. Growth
creates the illusion of potential abundance, but makes inevitable a dog-eat-dog
competition for ever-more scarce resources. The principal casualty is the
planet and the only true beneficiaries are economic elites.”

More links to info and perspective on my tribe page: http://people.tribe.net/skeyeopener

And here are two links in regards to an integral aspect, if not the truly defining one, of a conscious business venture: the ecological footprint http://www.footprintnetwork.org/
Take the quiz: http://ecofoot.org/

Great stuff!..Global PIcture and demanding  an entrepreneurial nexus in the biggest context, individually and collectively.

I want to invite you to OpenBC, I am sure. many, many bright business owners, people iwith understanding of CI and Social Cpaital, Cultural Creatives and LOHAS specialists, from Europe, Asia , North America and  ROW, from NGO`s and politics, culture, business and science, with fantastic potentials are curious about this Project! Vice versa evolutionary and integral perspectives are wating for be beeing cross fertilized with entreprenuerial know How, competences, momentum and Focus…

OpenBC is the fastest growing Business community with now over 1 Million members in less than 3 years.

Feel free to ask me, so you could connect fast…….

www.openBC.com

http://www.openbc.com/go/invite/3331352.1e2314

Greetings from Germany/Berlin

Albert Klamt

Wow!! - some vey insightful people Bri…… Taking all these different points of view and heart felt expressions and cultivating them into your plan, will hopefully bare the true fruit so many souls need in todays greedy life styles. This has the potential to address many needs in a more caring avenue.

Namaste

Greg

Hi Brian - well your plan certainly sounds promising. I do share the sentiments with previous posters concerning the creation of more consumerist spiritualism. I live in NYC where “red strings” and Om T-shirts abound yet seldom meet those who are willing to deeply look within. I want to (and must) believe that the model you set forth is doable. If so than I am excited beyond measure by the possibilities.
Wishing you prosperity on all levels and to us all…

Melis

“He who wishes to secure the good of others has already secured his own.” - Confucius

A friend suggested I post a link to my first blog post since it is addressing this mainly.

Brian: I hope you know that ‘you’ are not being attacked or disrespected, I admire the heart and initiative that is felt to be a part of this endeavor, but I also feel to share perspective on this. I will be delighted if such an endeavor can truly prosper in real sustainability that is cohesive to all.

Peace…

What you’re doing is something really fantastic.  And i completely understand capitalism’s role in all this.  Money in itself is neutral and can be used as a tool to create some good.  I think we all know that.  Wow.  It’s wonderful that zaadz has a lot of depth in it!  I can’t begin to express how this changes my respect for zaadz.

Every ism is a trap. Rather than thinking in terms of capitalism, why not simply follow logic. Logic dictates that any entity requires resources to grow. The resources that may be useful at one point in the evolution of an entity may be poisonous to it at another.

It’s NEVER about the money - it’s only ever about what you do with it.

To say zaadz is a proponent of capitalism is to build a position that at some point in the future may no longer be relevant  - and if you make it important now, what will happen to the entity if at some point in the future it is no longer relevant?

That’s what usually presents as an identity crisis.

I understand the motivation behind what you are doing - and have provided marketing and business support to many organisations with similar aims in the past.
Where they usually fall over, which you appear to have handled, is that they forget that triple-bottom-line accounting covers off on social, environmental and financial sustainability.

At every given point in time, the only question you can ask is is this true?

If it is, then you may not be guaranteed to have an easy time of it.

But if you don’t tell the truth you are guaranteed to suffer.

To those who have an issue with capitalism, money etc, the important thing to remember is that, if you want to look at money as coming only from certain sources, you are doomed to failure.

There is no good or bad money - just money. The arms dealer buys cocaine from a street dealer who buys his coke from some really ‘bad’ people but spends the money he makes on a suit that this guy tailored in a sweatshop while saving money to send his daughter to college who goes on to become a nobel peace prize winner.

Get over the moral high ground and you will see that what you do NOW is the only place where you have any influence at all.

I’ll pass over the pulpit to someone else now ;) 

Hello everyone,

  I have been in a position to think about spirituality and capitalism for some time now and my conclusion is as follows: “Capitalism can merge with a spiritually oriented community only so long as those contributing community members financially gain from their input into the community”.

  What does that mean ?

  Well basically the problem is that if one company (zaadz.com) is making all the money off of a community of people sharing their hearts and souls for the betterment of themselves and mankind that just feels icky, and ultimately not very fun. It seems to me that it is hard today to make a living as a spiritual provider (teaching, bodywork, books, art, etc) and that those who do make a living doing such deserve to get paid, supported, by the community of people who consume their content. Therefore, I have for some time now believed that the next truly successful spiritual online community is going to find a way to pay those spiritual artists/teachers/leaders who come forward to offer their content (insights in writing, audio or video) to the greater community. That is my model of a progressive spiritual community. The community itself is charged some small monthly fee in order to support the content that the community has access to.  If you provide content and it is meaningful to people and they ‘use it’ then you will get paid for your efforts. Zaadz.com (or whatever vehicle drives this system) gets some cut of the money to continue to offer the infrastructure to make it all possible and that is fine and understandable…

    Ads are hard to imagine, even only “spiritual” ads, because it is hard to say what for one person is spiritually worthy, and for another just cheap (a.k.a plastic buddhas). Do you really want the responsibility of picking what ads make it and what don’t ? Granted that there are some material products which people will find relevant to their spiritual development, but lets not decieve ourselves, no material object is going to provide true spiritual growth, so why showcase them on a spiritual growth site ?

    Again, it seems to me that the only authentically spiritual revenue model for an online spiritual community is membership, and that membership is divided up between the hosting companies necessary revenue (to pay the funders, and to keep the community growing) and the content providers.

    This is what enlightenment.com (the spiritual community website I have co-founded) is all about - it is our dream to pay people money who contribute content which other community members watch/consume/play, while at the same time taking only enough money out of the monthy dues to grow the company and community infrastructure.

    I often wonder if it is at all possible to do this in a for-profit company, since your legal duty is first and formost to your stockholders… I often find myself feeling like my first and formost duty is to my community, so perhaps the company should be a non-profit. I’d love to hear about your thoughts in regards to your duty to your stockholders, for it is a question I cannot easily resolve.

    I feel like there is likely a solution which maximizes profits for stockholders while at the same time maximizes spiritual growth for the consumers/visitors/community members, but I have not had that vision yet.

    Anyhoo, a bit of rambling, but hopefully you will find some meaninful questions in my post, thanks for providing a very cool community infrastructure and making the effort to figure out this most important sector of business,

Gabriel DeWitt

(just some guy, on a blog, blurting something out …)

after reading through this thread, i'm moved to share a sentiment i felt as a very young boy.

this just “popped back up” and is something i've never shared before – just a naive child's musing.

it stumped me, as a kid (maybe 5 or 6), pained me, to look around and notice all the aching, lonely, stranded  souls in our midst who really are most in need of our society's love, attention, resources …  i though of people in jails.  hungry people.  sick people.  otherwise “distressed” people.  and i could see some other folks, just a few people, to  whom lavish, inordinate amounts of love, attention, and resources flowed – more than plenty.  the whole setup seems so “topsy-turvy.”  and i could imagine, from my kid's-eye view, grabbing up one of these “few” by the ankles, and shaking them out across the human landscape, and redistributing (though that word was not in my tiny head) all that “extra” love, attention, and resources out to all those “other” people to whom, in my child's mind, it really “belonged.”

i was carted off to a baptist sunday schools as a kid.  many some new testament blurb,

“In as much as you have done these things for the least among you …”

had touched my heart.

later (maybe i was 10), i can remember watching a documentary about john david  rockefeller, and recall especially a clip that showed “jd” handing out dimes to all the kids he met.  i learned a new word that day: philanthropist.  and i decided then and there that, “when i grow up, i want to be a philanthropist.”

later still (my early 20's), i read andrew carnegie's, “gospel of wealth” – a tome against inherited wealth, and a call to “give it all back.”

more recently, i've read with great enthusiam, paul hawken's, “natural capitalism.”

anyhoo(!), now 47, i'm not too much more sophisticated or much less naive about “economic models” and “resource allocation” than i was as a boy.

just moved to share …

i applaud brian & co.  i looks great to me.

rhobherto

some typos.  pardon.  it still reads.

namaste

OK, Let's talk business.
Really. We all have it our lives, we all want to make the most of what we have and it seems many of us here, have great reasons for searching this spot in the universe out. I have been around for a long time, and was an early subscriber to Bri's Tinkartete…it changed me….made me look at things anew, and moved me in a direction that feels more right than I ever have….that was three years ago now. I can say that making money is important to me honestly…I need cash. We all do, I thi nk the business model sounds great, I know I will probably never get to go to a retreat, or spa, or whateverelse, but those that can afford such activities will. If the intention behind the information delivered is TRUE, then we should all be able to make a living, without shame…or greed.
These are some of the things that I ask myself before I came on board on this much larger project…is the fact that I being a poor atist, will never be able to afford to fo to the spa/retreat part of Zaadz is that important to me. I really don't care, I can have a spa treatmeant at home and read information that chages my life, but honey we all got to have big plans, ways to sustain, and ways to grow. Staying true to the cousrse, and being transparent about the process is key to creating change that will and can effect the entire planet, rippling out and inspiring others to want that change in their lives too….so they go out and do it. Inspiration is what ZaadZ is really about. Becoming, finding the people, tools and skills to become the human I was born as and then more. I trust Bri's vision, even if I don't understand all of it, but I trust this Man and what he is trying to do with this platform. We can make it whatever we want…branding, marketing, and making money are part of that process too. Moeny is not evil like was said up there in another terrific post, sorry, I can't remebr who said it, but it's true. Where and how you spend your time, and your money is power.  Like the 4% theory that Gore brought up….I read that on another great blog here too…anyway, I'm rambeling, but my 2 cents is this…Bri is consitant, in his actions and works, and words. That matters to me, because that is the change that is needed worldwide…being who we really are, and learning that's ok…tolerance and faith, and because it's simply fucking rare in this world today…which makes it valueable. I do think providing tools that are affordable to the masses is one of the best ideas for money making and have been fully behind that part of the project from the start…empower people with tools and information and the world changes on it's own…it's organic, natural and right…and different for each of us. Again back to open minded tolerance, and healthy ruthlessness, the mixture is fine, it's weather you use it for the power of good or the power of destruction. Choice. I chose to co-create this little universe because I know that the simple fact is that I was helped, for no profit, and for no gained, and that has spawned inspiration in my world, and the people that come into contact with it…then they go off and spawn some more, and it really does work, because I am livng proof that it does work. Now on to the Biz talk….

Here's my questions for this topic…love to hear feed back from the whole on it.
Much love ,
Heather
we have had some great posts about making a living and doing it on your own being a creative of some sort, I actually can't thnk of anything that could not be described as being creative…but anyway, let's talk. What's working for you as far as your marketing? Where are you spending your Power (time & money)?
What makes you feel great about being out there on  your own, and what is the hardest part?
What is the mission statement of your life as it is today?
Where does the balence of work/home come from if you live and work in the same place for you?
What motivates you to keep at it?
Anyone? this is Zaadz…this interaction, debate, and revoulution…not a passing pahase, how do you plan to make it in this new world? I hope to hear from you about this…be well,
Heather

You’ve got a great vision ahead. Be flexible with change, but never lose sight of the destination. You have all my support.

ethical obligations in business

that's sure to raise some eyebrows.

to quote anita roddick, former bodyshop CEO:

“In terms of power and influence, you can forget the church, forget politics.
There is no more powerful institution in society than business –
I believe it is now more important than ever before for business to assume a moral leadership.
The business of business should not be about money, it should be about responsibility.
It should be about public good, not private greed.”

In my experience, if you consider you have the best value product or service in a given market you have an ethical obligation to DOMINATE that market.

Stories about artistic and visionary integrity are bulls**t if they become an impediment to achieving the result.

this is not to say that the end justifies the means, simply that in business, as in life, many great ideas fall over because there is no attention on the money

perhaps it would be wonderful if zaadz was fully funded by a group of visionary billionaires who were happy to keep tipping money into a project because it felt good, and we all got to play and pray and stay for free

but that is not the reality

so how about starting a forum dedicated to the raising of specific ideas for the generation of capital resources and financial sustainability, and leave this forum for posturing and philosophising.

this portal requires capital - it may do this through:
banner advertising
sponsorship
subscription only areas
newsletter subscription
daily sms
events
webinars
seminars
affiliate linkage [from here to others]
provision of services to businesses associated with this portal

further, it can offset some of the costs of ongoing development and running through sponsorship of core services via appropriate businesses

when the portal is big enough, you can be guaranteed that telcos, IT hardware companies and the like will be interested and we all need phones and computers so there is no possibility of a banner ad for HP being inconsistent with the aims and intentions of zaadz

am on a bit of a rant - but have really watched so many projects fall over [as mentioned in my last post] because of a lack of real financial leadership, and feel that it's time we all stopped behaving like amateur proctologists and looked for real answers to the questions being asked by this forum

no apologies for being direct

awesome. i like monkeys.

I've been thinking about this thread for a while. I've got to mention that I liked the financial model all the way until I read the “big picture”. The idea of a Zaadz oasis and resort leaves a bitter taste for me. Here's why:

I've seen what happens to small unique companies once they get big; they lose their uniqueness/appeal and get homogenized. Heck, all of America is already homogenized. I can travel across the country and stand in one town but not be able to tell the difference between that and the last three towns.  In the effort to appeal to everyone, you lose the thing that made you appealing in the first place. Why aspire to spas and resorts, which conjure up visions of Disney-land-type destinations? Didn't Walt Disney turn into a whip-wielding boss? What's to say that great power and influence won't make you, Brian, turn that way, too? Will your spiritual practice safeguard you from spiritual materialism?

REI started small. My father was one of the first two hundred people to have a membership there and pay his dues. Then they got big; really big. He stopped shopping there. The prices got outrageous. They stopped catering to the hard-core outdoors people and tried to broaden their audience. That is what I'm afraid will happen to Zaadz if you try to diversify too broadly. You'll lose your 'hard-core' first audience.

Restaurants who serve a type of food for everyone lose their genuineness. They are no longer “Mexican food” if they also serve pizza and hamburgers. They are no longer “american southwest food” if they also serve lasagne, falafel, or baklava.

When I want to learn a new skill, I want to go to a teacher who is the best in that one skill, not one who dabbles in ten skills.

So, if my two cents is worth anything at all, I'd like to question your aspirations at such wild diversifications like the oasis and resort. I love the publishing idea, love the events, and membership and sponsorship, and I even love the Zaadz Foundation idea. They all follow the same grain. But the I say get good at one genre and stick with it. Stick with specialization.

not to set myself in opposition to whole foods magnate, john mackey, and his tremendous enterprise, i must confess my own knee-jerk antipathy toward his anti-union cant.  and i presume, as well, that, as a libertarian, he is philosophically opposed to democracy – another hitch in my appreciation of this man who, as described by charles fishman,

“has done more to improve the quality, sustainability, healthfulness, and purity of the food Americans eat – from farm field and barnyard to kitchen table – than anyone else in the past 25 years.” [link]

again, in my case, this anitpathy does not amount to opposition.  my own “progressive” mendacity could, perhaps, benefit from a healthy whack on the side of my head.  mr. mackey has himself admitted, fairly recently, to some thick-headedness of his own when, after some resistance, he adopted animal welfare issues as a cornerstone both of his business model and his personal life.  he switched from vegatarian to vegan – talk about walking the talk – and is now dedicated to illegalizing all the aggregious practices of factory farming.  [see linked article, above]  how huge is that?!  amen, and more power to you, mr. mackey!

similarly, however, there is a significant amount of grass roots antagonism toward the whole foods enterprise; some of it amounting to opposition; some of it, perhaps, nothing more than resentment of mr. mackey's phenomenal success.  another “big box” store pushing out local co-ops and mom & pop shops …  anti-union …  high-margin pricey … and so on.  some of the criticism is a bit far flung, as in, ”the same people who brought you Whole Foods Market also brought you the B-1 bomber.”  but then, if mackey can attract capital away from the war machine, isn't that a good thing?

from what i have read, i am open to the idea that the “team member” practices of whole foods markets may truly be a better and wiser alternative to unionisation.  just as all “corporate” enterprise is not monolithically “bad,” all “union” enterprise is not monolithically “good.”

the liberty v. democracy debate i'll leave for another day.

doubtless, mackey is a giant in tevas and a tee-shirt and is, indeed, truly changing the world.

post, delete, post, delete, post – trying to get the links right.  i apologise if everyone here got  triple notified of this addition.

anyway, the still-not-working b-1 link:  http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/steinberg.htm

a bit of tangent, yes, but …

unleashed a bit more blowback at the michael strong post

brian: I'm confused about your presumption that “he is philosophically opposed to democracy.” huh?

“tyranny of the mob?”

i'd dearly love to have you ask mr. mackey his opinion of democracy, and let us know what he says.

will read jm's blog posts next, and want to be persuaded – want to embrace a more elevated vision of capitalism's promise and mission.  i must admit to having to get over a hump to put my arms around plain, old, unreconstitued, “free market” capitalism.

thanks brian!

a devoted zaadz fan!

just a few brief impressions from reading the two leading posts on john's blog.

he is certainly not the caricature of a “libertarian” that i had conjured up, knee-jerk fashion, in my mind.  he is a fan of democracy.  attaboy, john.  and he is not an unreconstructed capitalist, but a capitalist-plus with a real vision.

i might still quibble with him on a point here and a point there, but tend to be persuaded.

and it is his success, and other successes like his,  that could very well transform and elevate capitalism as we know it.

want to learn more!

wow! love the recent exchanges. i've added those links to my collection. this is the reason i love Zaadz because people here have to balls to question whatever yet still have the honesty and courage to accept new knowledge.

allow me to share my humble take on capitalism and growing big…

when Microsoft started it was the darling of tech… it got big and suddenly it's the evil empire… when Google started it was the hero and savior of tech… it got big and suddenly it's fast becoming the evil empire…. when Starbucks started it's the darling of the coffee industry… it got big and suddenly it's the evil coffee company…. and i could go on and on and on and on…

when Zaadz started it has a great vision and it looks like the people behind it are sticking to their guns, yet still, some (clueless) people perceived them as evil… i wonder what's going to happen once Zaadz hits mainstream… crossing my fingers…

my point. it's a combination of perception of market and the actual practices of those big companies. no matter how authentic the companies/corporations are if they are perceived as “evil” (case in point: Microsoft) then they will always have a bad taste in some other people's mouth. this is just natural i think. because you can't please everyone. but to me the more important thing is that the company stay true to their vision and live on the ideals to do the “less harm” as possible.

i want to learn more too!

“the higher that we climb, the more the ladder sways…”

~C (for Corporate Bodhisattva)

Brian said: “Seriously though: I'm less interested in ideals that call for a business to do “less harm” than I am in recognizing that business can ABSOLUTELY be used as a force for good.”

sounds like the same nasty banana to me :)

as for a spiral link. here's one from the Spiral Wizard himself. and he didn't even use FREAKIN' COLORS! :) - Spiral Dynamics Without The Colors

~C (for Colors are groovy)

nice quote!

btw, forgot to include a link for that quote. it's from Stu's song entitled, The Ladder, one of my favorites. i say make the ladder strong metallic and out of concrete. and also increase the height of the wall where the ladder is leaning against so it sways less. IMHO :)

btw2, your Nietzsche quote reminded me of this Seal song too.
don't blame me, you started it! :)

Oh darlin…
In a sky full of people, only some want to fly,
Isn't that crazy?
In a world full of people, only some want to fly,
Isn't that crazy?
Crazy…
In a heaven of people there's only some want to fly,
Ain't that crazy?
Oh babe… Oh darlin…
In a world full of people there's only some want to fly,
Isn't that crazy?
Isn't that crazy… Isn't that crazy… Isn't that crazy…

hahaha. nice. elevators are cool, but i say wormholes are much cooler! :P

another one or two cents worth … probably just another tangent.

pissing and moaning without tendering a real solution is a ubiquitious, tried-and-true tradition.  counsult history.  ask a friend.  ask your neighbor.  ask yourself.  bitch.  bitch.  bitch.

whether it is simply[!] an individual's establishment in second-tier consciousness or the far more ambitious establishment of a truly second-tier organization or business, individuals and individual organizations will make this leap before societies at large.  by example, individuals and individual collectives can lead, can guide, can “wicK” others up and onto this “higher” road.

it ain't just puttin' lipstick on a pig.  you can't re-brand yourself or your organization onto the second-tier.  real wisdom, exquisite discernment, profound integrity, scupulous accountability, tolerance, cooperation, mutuality, and, yes, john mackey, love attend the process.  only real transformation is transformative.

real harm, real calamity, real death and destruction are being meted out by individuals and organizations – many of them already armed with  the very same “free market,” capitalist tools that john mackey extols – who are yet to make this transformation, and with consequences for us all.  there is real crisis loose upon this earth and stalking down every single one of us.  and real transformation isn't merely some dormant potentiality, some evolutionary inevitability, but an urgent necessity requiring real growth, real wisdom, and real change within our lifetimes.

interestingly, wonderfully, graciously, there are living examples and agents of this change in our midst.  i am honestly prepared to conclude, and brighter hearts and minds than my own attest, that john mackey is exactly this kind of man.  he is taking capitalism – “transcend and include” – to a new, higher, and better level.  and i gather, he wouldn't have us “legislate” the model he employs, but would, by sheer example, by the attractive proof of his work – real change, real profits – lead the way.

each or us, whatever our endeavors, will choose to contribute to the crisis, to lanquish in it, to be crushed by it, or, instead, become agents of the change we wish to see in the world. and there is real help, real wisdom, real vision and guidance in our midst, the tools are at hand, here, now, to facilitate our changing.  not everyone sees the genuine possibitities.  those who do are obliged to act.

this is no small undertaking and i, for one, have struggled pretty mightily along my own path.  i am struggling still.

the world is Brahman.  you are Brahman.  touch the earth.

intended to lead off with this graphic:

http://aura.zaadz.com/photos/15759/large/miracle.jpg?

mackey kicks ass in what is currently the third entry on his blog – a debate with friedman and rodgers.  [link below] comparing the bottom-line financials of whole foods and cypress semiconductors  – apart from the means and the methods and the “whole system” impacts of either operation – is of course the coup de grace.

“The ideas I'm articulating result in a more robust business model than the profit-maximization model that it competes against, because they encourage and tap into more powerful motivations than self-interest alone. These ideas will triumph over time, not by persuading intellectuals and economists through argument but by winning the competitive test of the marketplace. Someday businesses like Whole Foods, which adhere to a stakeholder model of deeper business purpose, will dominate the economic landscape. Wait and see.” ~ mackey

rock on!

http://www.wholefoods.com/blogs/jm/archives/2005/09/rethinking_the.html

GROOVY!

THAT, my friends, is one of the main reasons why i ride with Zaadz and collect these groovy hyperlinks :)

It isn’t really about how much money you make. It’s about what you do with that money. To quote a famous character, “Money, if you’ll pardon the expression, is like manure. It’s not worth a thing unless it’s spread around, helping young things to grow”. That’s the crux. Make as much money as you can and then funnel it right back into the community where it came from. Use the influence a large company has as a force for education and reform. You must be heard to create change. And you must be heard repeatedly and often in this overstimulated world where yesterday’s news is quickly forgotten.

trooper that he is, brian stopped by my blog where i'd cut and pasted some of this recent back and forth, from here and another thread on his blog.  he slogged through it all again, and added this comment:

enjoyed it thoroughly the second time thru as well. :)

only because i can imagine brian encouraging me, “could you repeat that and say it just a little bit louder?,” my reply posted here:

cool!  thanks brian for putting john mackey, his ideas, and his work up front here at zaadz, and for helping me (and many others)  gain a much more thorough introduction to capitalism-plus.   i can really start to imagine operations like mackey's transforming the marketplace and pounding the old-school capitalists into the dirt!  adapt or die.   beyond his extraordinary and growing body of achievements, something we haven't really addressed here yet, he is raising public expectations, changing public expectations about what business is and what business does – and, clearly, not just with rhetoric.  it really does almost seem to approach (i'll go there) an implementation of the ethos, “what profiteth he who would gain the world, but lose his soul.”

a pretty damned dramatic shift in corporate ethics!

and to quote mackey again:

Someday businesses like Whole Foods, which adhere to a stakeholder model of deeper business purpose, will dominate the economic landscape. Wait and see.

or, better yet, jump in and join the revolution!

(But it's so big, it has encapsulated us all!)  OMZ, Mackey Rocks the Kazba!

speak for yourself Matthew! Brian's head will never ever be bigger than… UNICRON!

still lumbering along here, attempting to learn more.  simply seached “capitalism” today.  wikipedia entry a good launch point:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

lots of “objectivist/randian” results. 


urbandictionary.com definition of “objectivist:”

objectivist

“My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.” -Ayn Rand

1. Individualism and freedom are central to an objectivist's life
2. LIBERALS SUCK



couple of other bits i picked up today:

excerpt – with emphasis added – from, Capitalism Under Fire, by William Pfaff:


“… The essential question is, what capitalism are we talking about? Since the 1970s, two fundamental changes have been made in the leading (American) model of capitalism.
 
The first is that the “stakeholder,” post-New Deal reformed version of capitalism (in America) that prevailed in the West after World War II was replaced by a new model of corporate purpose and responsibility.
 
The earlier model said that corporations had a duty to ensure the well- being of employees, and an obligation to the community (chiefly but not exclusively fulfilled through corporate tax payments).
 
That model has been replaced by one in which corporation managers are responsible for creating short-term “value” for owners, as measured by stock valuation and quarterly dividends.
 
The practical result has been constant pressure to reduce wages and worker benefits (leading in some cases to theft of pensions and other crimes), and political lobbying and public persuasion to lower the corporate tax contribution to government finance and the public interest.
 
In short, the system in the advanced countries has been rejigged since the 1960s to take wealth from workers, and from the funding of government, and transfer it to stockholders and corporate executives.

… The second change that has taken place is globalization. The crucial effect of this for society in the advanced countries is that it puts labor into competition with the poorest countries on earth.
 
We need go no further with what I realize is a very complex matter, other than to note the classical economist David Ricardo's “iron law of wages,” which says that in conditions of wage competition and unlimited labor supply, wages will fall to just above subsistence.
 
There never before has been unlimited labor. There is now, thanks to globalization - and the process has only begun.”

http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/29/news/edpfaff.php


also, another thorn on the rose:

Welcome to ‘Whole-Mart’: Rotten Apples in the Social Responsibility Industry, by Mark T. Harris

http://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/?article=162


paul hawken (www.natcap.org) apparently able to pick a few nits with john mackey and whole foods.  “paul hawken, john mackey” another interesting search.

zaadz-sponsored conference/discussion? – hawken, mackey (and others) on the future of capitalism?

loopty loop

brian, your last post reminded me of ken wilber's brief (brief in kw terms) overview of  Spiral Dynamics here,

http://wilber.shambhala.com/html/books/cowokev7_intro.cfm/

and, within it, an example of “memetic analysis” done by don beck of an article, “Transpersonal Issues at the Millennium,” by donald rothberg:

“This article is approximately 90% green meme, 10% turquoise. Some of the questions asked are turquoise, but the solutions and analysis are green. There is little depth perception in the constructions; in other words, there are almost no second-tier recommendations. The article clearly allows for transpersonal realities, but the presentation is conducted through green lens. The article does an excellent job of summarizing green's contribution to psychology and sociology.”  [under, “topical issues”]

would that more of us enjoyed such perspective and capacity for this level of analysis!

also, from kw in this same overview:

 ” …without second-tier thinking, as Graves, Beck, and Cowan point out, humanity is destined to remain victims of a global 'auto-immune disease,' where various memes turn on each other in an attempt to establish supremacy.”

and yet:

…the major problem remains: not, how can we get everybody to the integral wave or higher, but how can we arrange the health of the overall spiral , as billions of humans continue to pass through it, from one end to the other, year in and year out?

In other words, most of the work that needs to done is work to make the lower (and foundational) waves more healthy in their own terms. The major reforms do not involve how to get a handful of boomers into second-tier, but how to feed the starving millions at the most basic waves; how to house the homeless millions at the simplest of levels; how to bring healthcare to the millions who do not possess it. An integral vision is one of the least pressing issues on the face of the planet.

     The Integral Vision in the World at Large

      Let me drive this point home using calculations done by Dr. Phillip Harter of Stanford University School of Medicine. If we could shrink the earth's population to a village of only 100 people, it would look something like this:
    

     There would be–

      57 Asians

      21 Europeans

      14 North and South Americans

      8 Africans

      30 white

      70 nonwhite

      6 people would possess 59% of the world's wealth,

      and all 6 would be from the United States

      80 would live in substandard housing

      70 would be unable to read

      50 would suffer malnutrition

      1 would have a college education

      1 would own a computer

    

     Thus, as I suggested, an integral vision is one of the least pressing issues on the face of the planet. The health of the entire spiral, and particularly its earlier waves, screams out to us as the major ethical demand.


this led me, upon some further searching, to discover Donella (Dana) Meadows who spead the “100 people” message around the world (did you get that email?) and her legacy, http://www.sustainer.org/

a link at that site led me here, http://www.newdream.org/index.php

and on the newdream advisory board – loopty loo – paul hawken.   not having looked at his work since the publication of “natural capitalism,” i discover he has two “new” sites –

his institute:   http://www.naturalcapital.org/

his site:   http://www.paulhawken.com/

and lauding hawken's work there on his front page: william greider.  when i pitched the “future of capitalism” conference idea earlier, greider was the one “other” i thought to include.

his site: http://www.williamgreider.com/



so, an enthralling little cyber-adventure for me, kicked off by your last post, bri, and maybe a link of two of some interest to others.

what about a zaadz capitalism conference?  who would integral institute send or recommend?


feeling like i'm a little blog hog, short and stout.  sometimes it's hard to behave.

herding cats?


info@paulhawken.com

Dear Mr. Hawken,  

simply because one of their mailings has just popped up in my box, i've also written to the international relations center in nearby silver city, new mexico, to 'wonder out loud if there might be a role for irc in shaping, hosting, sponsoring, contributing to such a confab.'  see:  irc board of directors.

will reach out to vandana shiva, and others, as well.

other potential participants?

http://www.goodworkproject.org/

… ?

just a prospective dart on the board:


Earth Day Conference on The Future of Capitalism

April 20-22, 2007

Santa Fe, New Mexico


prospective participants: ken wilber, john mackey, paul hawken, will greider, vandana shiva, et al.


accomodations for participants: Inn of the Anasazi, Santa Fe, New Mexico

http://www.innoftheanasazi.com/


conference venue: Greer Garson Theatre, College of Santa Fe

http://www.csf.edu/csf/about/venues.html


chasing my tail already.

rhobherto:
“feeling like i'm a little blog hog, short and stout.  sometimes it's hard to behave.”

I would like to thank you for NOT behaving.  ;^)

Your vigilance and willingness to continually be open and investigate perspectives on this matter is greatly appreciated. As well as the straight forward and respectful manner in which it is shared.

I am also grateful for the inspired initiative in regards to the possible 'The Future of Capitalism' conference. I feel this is something that could be beneficial to commence ASAP, but if it is still possible and there is a willingness and availability for it to happen next year that's wonderful too. I second Earth Day, it would help to bring into focus the full extent of what we are addressing. I have a feeling though that this issue of our world society and how it is operating is gaining a lot of attention and may be getting addresssed more and more this year, but if this has not come to an overall awareness and understanding next year, then this type of forum could be very beneficial.

My nominee for attendance is Arundhati Roy. She defines and speaks strongly about 'aggressors and suppressors', but not so much as to say “these people are evil”, but to speak to and bring awareness of thier actions.

“The theme of much of what I write, fiction as well as nonfiction, is the relationship between power and powerlessness and the endless, circular conflict they're engaged in. John Berger, that most wonderful writer, once wrote: 'Never again will a single story be told as though it's the only one.' There can never be a single story. There are only ways of seeing. So when I tell a story, I tell it not as an ideologue who wants to pit one absolutist ideology against another, but as a story-teller who wants to share her way of seeing. Though it might appear otherwise, my writing is not really about nations and histories; it's about power. About the paranoia and ruthlessness of power. About the physics of power. I believe that the accumulation of vast unfettered power by a State or a country, a corporation or an institution - or even an individual, a spouse, a friend, a sibling -regardless of ideology, results in excesses such as the ones I will recount here.”

….

“But fortunately, power has a shelf life. When the time comes, maybe this mighty empire will, like others before it, overreach itself and implode from within. It looks as though structural cracks have already appeared. As the War Against Terror casts its net wider and wider, America's corporate heart is hemorrhaging. For all the endless, empty chatter about democracy, today the world is run by three of the most secretive institutions in the world: The International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, and the World Trade Organization, all three of which, in turn, are dominated by the U.S. Their decisions are made in secret. The people who head them are appointed behind closed doors. Nobody really knows anything about them, their politics, their beliefs, their intentions. Nobody elected them. Nobody said they could make decisions on our behalf. A world run by a handful of greedy bankers and C.E.O.'s whom nobody elected can't possibly last.

Soviet-style communism failed, not because it was intrinsically evil but because it was flawed. It allowed too few people to usurp too much power. Twenty-first century market-capitalism, American style, will fail for the same reasons. Both are edifices constructed by the human intelligence, undone by human nature.

The time has come, the Walrus said. Perhaps things will become worse and then better. Perhaps there's a small god up in heaven readying herself for us. Another world is not only possible, she's on her way. Maybe many of us won't be here to greet her, but on a quiet day, if I listen very carefully, I can hear her breathing.”

Transcription of Arundhati Roy reading and
Ms. Roy and Howard Zinn in conversation
Lensic Performing Arts Center
Santa Fe, New Mexico
18 September 2002

I am remembering that there is the AWBC also.

About AWBC

Perhaps there could be a meeting of 'natural capitalists' giving thier perspective on why 'capitalism' as a whole is not to be discounted and is still a viable solution? I will propose this to the group. I have not had any contact with them yet, but I have a feeling I may be attending and perhaps volunteering this year.

I have not been involved yet because I am not in a greement so much with the oppositional tone of the effort so far. I understand the perspective on it I feel, but even though they are essentially in alignment with the following I also feel I will share this perspective in the upcoming communication for consideration:

~~~~~~~~~~

To oppose is to strengthen that which is opposed. Supporting what is felt to be 'right' naturally weakens what is felt to be 'wrong'. Invite and support the potential of peace within the perceived 'wrong doer' to open to and live this potential. Defining 'them' as 'enemy' and 'wrong' rigidifies projection of conceptual self(the ever changing personality) that is not the reality of self(the unchanging core). The unconditional and compassionate Love of Self, Heart, is ever-inviting and embracing itSelf.

Even in saying 'No' there is 'Yes' that remains open to peace. Openly question without attack. Deny without need to make 'wrong'.

Live Peace…

To oppose a 'concept', to actively seek to destroy something, is to 'give life' to what is inherently 'dead'. By clearly stating what is felt to be essential and true, alively aligned with Life(the natural cycle of life/death), this stands on it's own and needs not to denounce anything. Any possible opposition to this will reveal it's true essence and value. If what is stated is not essential and true, yet is received in peace, this will be seen and can be released(by 'either and both' beings), without need to defend or shame.

Allow for and support dis-illusion-ment and clarity, no need to condemn the 'perceiver' of illusion(conceptual beliefs that distract from seeing clearly), whether that be 'you' or 'they', for both are Heart/Self…simple, impersonal, same and unchanging awareness within all beings.

Love thySelf…

~~~~~~~~~~~

While it sounds like AWBC has a definite perspective on 'capitalism', I feel it could be helpful to acknowledge and address the 'natural capitalism' movement and perhaps gain some insight into it by inviting an open non-accusatory discussion stating information and awareness, inviting the possibility of insight into perspectives.

AWBC Goals

Anyone is welcome to attend, but corporate/government entities are not allowed to table there.

“It is the goal of the AWBC 2006 conference that the Grassroots Exhibition will have exhibits only by people and groups which are non-government and non-corporate groups. In addition, it is our desire that Corporate Front Groups are not part of the Grassroots Exhibition. Everyone from everywhere is welcome to attend the AWBC, but use of Grassroots Exhibition space is only for Grassroots individuals and groups. The AWBC 2006 conference will not permit any group that is owned in whole or in part by a government or corporation to use Grassroots Exhibition space during the conference. This is very important because there has been an incredible increase throughout the world of organizations and groups which are deceptively posing as social justice groups and they have increasingly been able to achieve the goals of their government and multinational corporate sponsors.”

Brian:
“Thanks for sharing. Good stuf. All part of the discussion as we strive to bitch a little less and work a little harder toward creating the ideal we envision.

The Dissent article is particularly interesting in that it perfectly illustrates, in my mind, the extreme positioning of a first tier-perspective from which everything is either/or.”

Hm…not sure what you consider 'me' Brian, but I don't see it as either/or(although it is time for some serious questioning and decision making as far as world matters), nor do I feel this article is saying that either, merely telling some honest truths about how big business works to surpress real integral-ness with a lack if integrity. Offering perspective of what the workers are dealing with and what environmental, economic and ethical concerns there are.

I've predominantly worked in the service industry and also in corporate and bureaucratic environments that have used the tactics that this article is speaking of at Whole Foods. I also worked at Good Earth Natural Foods in Fairfax, Ca. that had some of the same concerns of being 'eaten up' or put out of business by the store in San Rafael, Ca. And while this is speculative, just stating from my perspective, I knew people that worked at Whole Foods and could attest to some of these work conditions as well. And overall I have seen more 'image' at WF, a lot of which the article addresses, than I have seen, heard or felt any real holistic integrity.

I'm not a learned intellectual, economist/ecologist, I am nobody really. Just sharing what is in awareness…and if there is some other aspect or perspective that can shed some light on something that perhaps hasn't been awared yet, all the better.

Brian:
“What do you want to say to people who quickly pass judgments on Zaadz as being, hippie, new agey, childish, money-making machine, or whatnot?

I appreciate you digging a little deeper and wading through the granola. :) ”

Well, what do you say to the apparent attempts to label and limit people as a psychological 'color' type?

Sounds like: Either you're with us(yellow, second-tier) or you're against us(other first-tier colors). I'm asking if there is the chance that there is more of 'the big picture' to consider?

Is there a desire to be heard, but an unwillingness to hear? I have been able to state certain aspects of what you have presented that I agree with AND what I don't, but I don't just stop at finding something that I do or don't agree with.

It essentially feels like there is still a definitive perspective on the part of zaadz inc. and a mainly saying, “Hey, thanks for sharing!”, but that's it. Like there is a waiting for people to come around to seeing things the 'zaadz way', to get in line with 'the vision'.

Brian:
“To be honest, I have to laugh. As you said, some call us new agey, hippie, tree-hugging freaks while others think we’re greedy capitalists just trying to capitalize on a market.

Well, which one are we?!? Cracks me up.”

How does stating judgmental generalities that have nothing to do with this discussion serve? And perhaps it's not either/or, but various perspectives shedding light on certain possibilities, whether intentional or not.

Here, I'll offer some information from the article that I would appreciate your perspective on:

~~~~~~~~

Whole Foods earns wide praise for selling a higher percentage of organic foods
in its stores than most supermarkets. The company’s management also travels
comfortably in a kind of vaguely sixties-era “counterculture” vernacular,
packaging its predatory takeover of the natural foods retail market in
eco-friendly jargon that emphasizes support for a “sustainable future,” the
integrity of the planet’s ecosystems, and other homages to environmental
awareness. Who could object to such charmingly “holistic thinking in a
conventional world?”

Actually, there is a lot to object to. A closer look at the company’s business
practices and Mackey’s ideas about business and society reveals a vision not
that different from a McDonald’s or a Wal-Mart. In fact, the Whole Foods
business model is more or less the standard stuff of Fortune 500 ambition. This
is a vision of mega-chain retailing that involves strategic swallowing up (or
driving out of business) of smaller retail competitors. It is a business model
that objectively complements the long-term industrialization of organics (that
is, large-scale corporate farms) over small family farms. It is also a vision
in which concerns about social responsibility do not necessarily apply where
less publicly visible company suppliers are concerned. Subsidiaries of
cigarette manufacturers (for example, Altria, owner of Kraft’s organic
products) or low-wage exploiters of minority workers (such as California
Bottling Co., Inc., makers of Whole Foods’s private-label water) are apparently
welcome partners in this particular eco-corporate version of “the sustainable
future.”

None of this should be that surprising. Mackey’s dream of a natural foods
empire became possible in the late 1980s with venture capital provided by
financiers Oak Investment Partners, Criterion Venture Capital Partners, and
First Interstate Capital Corp., all firms with track records as profiteers in
weapons manufacturing, as a Texas Observer investigation first reported in
1991. Yet marketing for socially responsible business can create the impression
that there is such a thing as a clearly demarcated progressive business sector,
reforming capitalism one sustainable mission statement at a time.

For the record, Mackey has not hesitated to defend McDonald’s as a contributor
to the public good. Nor does he have any problem with Wal-Mart, despite its
atrocious labor record or the way it drives competitors out of business and
pushes suppliers overseas to pursue rock-bottom costs.

Mackey’s views on Wal-Mart became known to Hawken, author of The Ecology of
Commerce, in the mid 1990s, when the Whole Foods CEO approached him about
joining the Whole Foods board. The conversation was pleasant until the subject
of Wal-Mart came up. Hawken mentioned that he’d been working recently to help
some small towns in Vermont keep Wal-Mart out of their communities.

“What’s wrong with Wal-Mart?” asked a surprised Mackey. Hawken said that since
their time was limited, maybe it would be better to ask, “What’s right about
Wal-Mart?”

“Okay, what’s right about Wal-Mart?” Mackey responded.

“Nothing,” said Hawken.

“It was like a pall was cast over the table,” Hawken recalls. Mackey wasn’t
interested in discussing any specific concerns about Wal-Mart, but instead
recited what Hawken describes as a “pat neo-conservative libertarian argument”
about how the Arkansas company’s success simply reflects the inherent wisdom of
the market. For Mackey, every shopping experience at Wal-Mart was supposedly
like casting a vote, a democratic choice. If the public wants Wal-Mart’s
big-box discount stores, who was Hawken or anyone else to object? In fact, not
only Hawken but entire communities have objected to the specter of Wal-Mart’s
arrival. And Hawken has also come to object to characterizations of Whole Foods
as a “socially responsible” company, criticizing its mega-chain drive to
monopolize the natural foods market as disastrous to “local food webs” of small
farmers and retailers.

~~~~~~~~~

This was the last response I heard from you on February 2nd, please correct me if I am wrong(we just a a brief exchange today regarding the 'Ellen' message).

And in my following response this was included which still feels to be relevant:

“We are coming to find out that trust was laid, and responsibility for each other and our Home relinquished, too greatly on a small number of ‘authorities’. So yes, if our system of trade and population or exchanging communities gets back down to a managable degree where we can see results of mistakes sooner, can regulate in a healthy way, instead of the mass control and rights limiting degree it has gotten to be, then capitalism in it’s ideal, and not purely as an economic function, could be okay.

But once again, I am less concerned with the system of exchange than the clarity of the exchange. What is the intention? What does it serve? How is it serving?

The definitions of how we interact will be unecessary if there is clarity on why and how we are acting, and most importantly if we come to clarity about ‘who/what’ is interacting.

It feels we are going to be going through* this extreme lesson to find out the truth of the matter soon. It all depends on what we find to be truly important.”

*(note: or are in this process already)

And if you have not read these blog posts, here they are:

The Field of Zaadz, capitalism and the questioning of intention

More perspective on 'commercialized spirituality'

~~~~~~~~~

Brian:
“And, if you come to the site and say, “Ahhhh…Finally. A place that’s striving to transcend and include spirituality and capitalism in a meaningful way…social networking with a purpose, huh? Why not?!?” then you’re probably Yellow.

(Rather self-serving, obviously. But I kinda like it. In any case, helps me take the witness as we receive the inevitable criticisms. ;))”

This sounds like a resignation of hearing 'negative' comments that aren't aligned with your vision, sitting back and not really responding to them. If there is not any real discussion, just a 'well, what about this' back and forth, or no response at all, then what is the point?

Perhaps labeling people's perspectives is taking a defensive stance rather than listening openly to what is being questioned and how it is.

And if you remember, “Ahhhh…” was predominantly my perspective at first, which I expressed and you responded to, but when I became more aware of ceratain aspects of zaadz and started asking questions I stopped hearing from you. Even direct messages. So, I am asking the questions that I am because I am feeling it may not be 'integral' enough here at zaadz.

'Spirituality' and 'Capitalism', which feel to be both under big review right now in the world society, are two very big and encompassing concepts that affect the whole world and have a lot of influence. I figured I would utilize this wonderful social networking tool to communicate about what I feel to be of possible importance to the world community. To openly question the integrity of some aspects of this endeavor, ask if these concerns I am expressing are of any interest to 'zaadz inc.', it's community, and to ask for clarification on what it is that is felt to be essential to 'changing the world' today?

How does 'spirituality and capitalism' fit into this? What IS 'spirituality' and 'capitalism'? What are some of the key messages of 'spirituality' that resonate to people? What are the defining characteristics of 'capitalism' and do they resonate with what is felt to be the true messages of 'spirituality' and is it felt to really be able to address the major concerns of the world community?

Is there a pick and choosing from both to meet a desired outcome? To produce a marketable concept? Because as of yet, I have not heard a true definition of either that resonates or anything that really backs up the rationale for 'capitalistic spirituality' or to make an important distinction I feel: 'spiritual consumerism'. This is the measure by which I am questioning mainly: Is whatever form of 'capitalism' serving to forward the over-consuming and exploitive practices of society as a whole?

If you have a specific idea and agenda you are working for then great, but what I have heard so far doesn't sound 'yellow' integrally all-inclusive and like you really want to hear the participants perspectives, or that they actually make a difference here except when they are more or less in agreement with your vision.

This feels like how the beureaucratic work environment operated.

I realize you have essentially said that you have a particular vision and if people don't like it they can choose to be elsewhere, that you are going to be working towards it regardless. So I guess, if this is true, I am wondering why there is the entertaining of a discussion on any of this? Is it really being seriously looked at and contemplated?

I appreciate the intention of Heart here and the desire to be of service, this is why I am adamantly questioning: to support clarity of intention and the 'highest in all'.

Another thing that just occured to me is this:
(not saying this is intentional or actual)

Labeling all the supposed differing perspectives into colors seems like a divide and conquer/defensive tactic, perhaps distracting from self-reflection, something that supports identification with a mental concept of 'me', rather than supporting the true essence of 'sameness' or 'spirit' within all beings.

All beings have the ability to see all perspectives. There may be a voicing or display of certain aspects more often than others at times, but if there is an  engagement with honest and open hearing and questioning, not needing to define 'them' as something 'else' and at least not entertaining a belief that 'this is who/what they are', that supports investigating what is spoken, then anything is possible.

Brian:
“To be quite honest, that conference is going to have to occur (and planning for it to commence) in 2007. This year we've got to execute our vision or we won't have much to talk about until we actually do something interesting!”

The question is: perhaps getting clear on this essential aspect of the model may help direct action more appropriately?

What if you find out in a year or further on down the line, that the majority of this endeavor is actually 'feeding the beast', creating and supporting what actually may need to be 'changed in the world'? And that if there had been more of an open contemplation and consideration this would have been seen sooner and your energy could have been more aptly spent?

“I'll bring Ken Wilber and John Mackey to the table. :) ”

I'm just asking if you can be at the table right now. I know you are rather busy and probably getting busier by the day. So if KW and JM sum it all up for you and you really have nothing else to add, there are no doubts or questions whatsoever, then okay, but I am wondering what is deeply felt about this all? If everything in the zaadz business statements are it for you, okay then, nothing more to say I guess. But if there is anything you have read or heard that has given you pause to think/feel deeper, question at all, then I'd love to hear it.

Peace…

just because and why not, i've reached out to paul hawken, bill greider, vandana shiva, william mcdonough, rachel's, and  the international relations center (quietly, i might dare to hope that irc board member noam chomsky might be encouraged to come. shhh!) about convening a “future of capitalism” conference sometime in '07.  i've requested information from inn of the anasazi and greer garson theatre, in nearby santa fe, as well.  and, yesterday, i pitched the idea to ken wilber, who replied,

Hey bro, I really appreciate this, but I don’t do conferences except those presented by I-I.  but if ever change my mind, I’ll surely let you know.  

Hi to Brian, my main man!  

Brightest,  Ken

i welcome skeye's suggestion to invite arundhati roy, also – she is a perfect “nominee for attendance.”  unable, yet, to find an email address for her, i will find a way to contact her (or “her people,” eh?) one way or another.

i feel moved to say, this is not some kind of  “scheme” – business or otherwise – i've cooked up for my own personal “fun” or “profit.”  i am not a professional event planner.  i am not yet married to this “idea.”  and that is all it is, an idea – insubstantial at this point – just a light bulb that popped on over my head.  yet, who knows?  if it's a good one, and a welcome and attractive opportunity to any of these stout souls/bright hearts and minds we've been talking about here, perhaps, to coin the phrase, “they will come.”  we'll see. 

i can also say, however, i love this idea!  and if the “greenlights” come in, i will be all over it – here in nm, somewhere else, whatever the format might be.

so, just now, mr. wilber's reply is the only one i've received.

keep it real!

Stages of Social Development:The Cultural Dynamics that Spark Violence,Spread Prosperity, and Shape Globalization, by Don Edward Beck, Ph. D.

http://spiraldynamics.net/DrDonBeck/essays/stages_of_social_development.htm

[nod to ~C4Chaos for this link]

attempting to address one of the concerns expressed by skeye:

Should I be worried? Am I typecasting other people, and myself, with these apparently broad-brushed, color-coded characterizations called “memes”? Is the Spiral Dynamics model, comprised of these memes, simply a convenient way to avoid having to grapple with the complexity and diversity of human beings and the challenge to discern who we really are? On the contrary, I have been finding that, rather than a cold analytical detachment or one-dimensional perspective, Spiral Dynamics is giving rise to a profound clarity of insight into the sweeping patterns of human psychologies, beliefs, and values (including my own) that are, often unconsciously, guiding our choices and shaping our very identities. Spiral Dynamics is also resulting in an unexpected and liberating objectivity because it places my own experience in the context of the entire history of human psychological development, the totality of which is present in each of us—from the most primitive survivalist instincts (BEIGE) to evolved spiritual aspirations (TURQUOISE), with, in my case, a good dose of righteous eco-egalitarianism (GREEN) thrown in!

from:

The Never-Ending Upward Quest

A WIE Editor Encounters the Practical and Spiritual Wisdom of Spiral Dynamics

An interview with Dr. Don Beck
by Jessica Roemischer

http://www.wie.org/j22/beck.asp?sd=1


~ local blog hog

Megatrends 2010: The Rise of Conscious Capitalism, by Patricia Aburdene

http://www.megatrends2010.com/index.cfm

got a “conference” nibble from Vandana Shiva: “happy to do it” if the dates work out.

did, at skeye's urging, track down and contact arundhati roy's agent.  amidst some very kind pleasantries:

I am afraid that Arundhati is taking a year-long break from any commitments, and is not taking on anything new at all until further notice. She is currently spending time in India with her family, both writing and travelling, and is not therefore in regular contact.

I am really sorry that I am unable to organise anything for you on this occasion but thank you for thinking of her.

Awesome Rhobherto, thank you for this.

another “yes.”

Tim Montague
Associate Director
Environmental Research Foundation
~ celebrating 20 years of Rachel's News ~
www.rachel.org

subject line: steady state economics

Robert,
I read your email with interest regarding putting together a conf. on
alternatives to the current suicide economy. We've been thinking about
the same. Haven't nailed down any details but wanted to see if you got a
positive response from any of the folks you contacted? We'd like to
shoot for a face to face conference in 2007. We know a retreat center on
the east coast that would be a good venue but other than that we haven't
thought much about it…just busy putting together our precaution academies.

But we are interested!

Cheers,

Tim


reply:

Hey Tim,  

Nice work on puting yourself out there! Amazing.   I can PROMISE you we will have many many many of these conference starting in 2007 and going from there.   I'm so focused on what we're doing right now operationally with Zaadz, Inc. b/c once we execute we'll have the mojo to bring all these people to the table quite easily.   Back to work.  

cover story on Utne: The New Capitalists  

 re: herding cats?

Dear Robert – Sorry for the slow reply.  The cats you are trying to herd are a very interesting bunch. Good luck in your effort. It's too early to make a commitment but, if you succeed in arranging this conversation, I am interested in participating.

best regards, Bill Greider

how do i subscribe to your blog? it rocks! :)

joyce  

Just a small correction to what Brian said.  If you click on Feed, you'll be taken to the RSS page that you can use to plug into a feed aggregator, if you have one.  If you'd like for Zaady to e-mail you everytime someone adds a new entry to their blog, just click the “Add to Notifications” link (which is directly above the “Feed” link).  Then you can edit how you receive the notification by clicking the “My Account” link in the upper right corner of your page and then clicking the appropriate link (in this case, “Blogs”) under the Subscriptions and Notifications heading.  :)

Thrilled to have found you, have had so many similar ideas for so long, ever expanding ideas written everywhere from folders to old ATM slips about a “wellness empire” built on a model of optimizing “stakeholder” health/ wealth devoted to empowering people to expand their beliefs about what is truly possible from/within each of us.   I believe the Universe is Alive and Abundant and we are as blessed as we are capable of conceiving/ imagining, not nearly as easy as it may sound.  I am inspired by and eager to participate in a product/ service company that uses it's power to educate and empower our individual and Universal concept of what is truly (and maybe even only?) possible through expanding consciousness on multiple levels/ dimensions.  Providing tools for personal development/ mastery/ creation is necessary in today's mainstream, self- loathing- inspiring marketplace.  THink of all the storage lockers across the US stuffed wth forgotten shit that was supposed to fill the hole but really just fragments further.  Seems more and more people are bored with “stuff” (materially/ physically/ emotionally, etc.)  and ready for “self”, and a sense of meaning and purpose.  Pathology is getting boring, evil/ greed is so old, done literally to death.  What could be more gratifying/ satisfying/ self-inspiring than to contribute tools or pathways for developing personal potential and the awareness of one's personal power and responsibility.   You know, to have like, a purpose for being here!  I believe we are ready for a bigger, better story where we are All alive together on this hero/ine's journey to tap our potential, the possibilities are so much more exciting than the present limited mindset of “success”.  We need the most enlightened, creative, experienced, innovators creating and investing the capital.  Because someone is going to.  And we need more models to inspire us, we need more examples of the diverse possibilities and avenues available to us to discover more about our self and Self.  We need a safe place to celebrate ourselves and make mistakes and learn from them and learn to be “Human” through awareness- evolving, personally REAL transformative/ transcending experiences…OMG I just stopped and I really should stop now, so sorry to ramble, just have thought a lot about a lot lately and nice to find others envisioning integrated, inspired futures grounded in reality (wherever yours may be!)

Money, capital, aka currency (where the streams are overflowing) is an energy field, neither good nor bad, positive or negative.

Isn't it about how you attract it and cultivate wealth along your journey?

Your intent is a model full of wonder for all to follow …

I love the free discussion and the different views about the money side of the site. I admire the underlying respect for all the written opinions - this allows the expressed view to be objective rather than personal. Brian's respect & diplomacy for others has won me over. He's been able to get at the core of me and what I want from an online community. If Zaadz can get their funding from sponsorship and still give me (the individual) value for free - I'll continue my support and even happily tell others about it. When Zaadz becomes a well-branded name offering spas & vacations (family friendly is a great option), I'll even check it out. It's still about choice. How Brian is now is how we can appreciate him. If he changes in the greed of money - the atmosphere of Zaadz will change and those of us who disagree will move on. Once a person loses their spirituality or transparancy - in person or online, one will know. It might take some time or it might be immediate but it will happen. If Brian or his team bow down to corruption or bend towards money - he has to deal with his conscious/spirit/ God. Remember we are our own worst critics….and we can create our downfall faster than other outside forces. I didn't mean to make this personal Brian. All I want to express is my admiration for what you are accomplishing. It's a good thing that Zaadz can bring like-minded people together - people with a mission and commitment to make the World better. I don't think the World can be better but we who live in the world can be better towards each other. Wealth has different meaning for different people - for a website, it means very good financing and enough features for its users. Be ok with that. I'd wish you luck but I know it's just hard work combined with enthusiasm for what you do well. - Maithai

1st off, there are a ton of comments & I haven’t read them all so I apologize if this has been touched on.

People (The Masses) are lemmings (sad but true). Those of us here at zaadz are part of a small percentage of people willing & able to push our own envelopes of self awareness & how we act & react with our world around us. If more people (a majority) were like us the world wouldn’t have a need for zaadz-like ventures, etc. Since people like to follow the trends, fads, etc., creating a “brand” that is considered “trendy” will open up these wonderful ideas to “plant seeds” in the minds & spirits of people who normally wouldn’t be down with such “new age” fare. This is more than a warm & fuzzy place for the choir to preach to it’s self. This is a psychological movement to reach the minds of the masses once it grows (seeds metaphor again) to fruition (fruit with more seeds inside) which creates an ecosystem of self sustaining change in the world one person at a time with exponential growth until a natural leveling off period at which the tides of social change will have been reached. As I say in one of my eSignatures “there is only magic, but there are good magicians & bad magicians”. i.e. It’s about the energy (intent) in which we do anything in life (personal or professional, care or career). There will always be business (even if we were all still farmers & crafts people who bartered a few things here & there while we did mostly everything necessary for survival on our own) but it’s how we conduct our business (an affair or matter, i.e. doesn’t have to be an income generating act) that matters what kind of world we create (for our immediate self, within, & the ripple effects it has outside of self; family, community, city, state, country, planet). The Force is The Force, regardless of if it’s used for good (Jedi) or bad (Sith). The choice is what is in our control. Zaadz, unlike other businesses, will have the voices of tens to hundreds of thousands of members (stockholders, not shareholders - no monetary dividends or cash flow, as we all have a stock in the state of the world - positive change in the world dividends or consciousness flow). All of us here are moths to a flame. We are attracted to what we already are conscious of & want more. The rest of the world is still in their cocoons (like being in their pods in The Matrix) so they have no attraction to the flame (that exists all around them & is an ember flickering within them, but their eyes are closed & the oxygen that can ignite their inner consciousness is kept out by fear, i.e. they are closed off from the light they have been taught to fear). The zaadz (seeds) we are planting are for the flower plants they will need to feed on once they awaken from their slumber. There are billions of people who will need to be fed as this awakening happens. A small endeavor will not surfice to feed the global community like a localized farming initiative can feed a few. We are preparing the soil for a rebirth within the many what already lives within the few (us). Besides, the great thing about Capitalism is you can always choose not to buy what it is they are selling! :o)

What about zaadz merchandise? Zaadz tshirt , coffee mugs hats etc. What about tshirts that provide a positive message. I see people with tshirt that say with stupid and an arrow that points either left or right.. How about one that says with god and has arrows pointing in all directions.

And something I have always thought about but dont have the skills to make. A picture frame that looks like a window. It would allow you to put any scene you want in it. (Pretty scenery could also be sold to put in the frame.) People that are in thier office cubes could have the window view they want. Also would work great for people that like to have theme rooms in their homes. Say you wanted to have a wild west theme in your basement. Add a few window frame and boom have the old west feel. How about if you always dreamed of an ocean view, add a window frame with a picture and there you have it.

Just some idea I felt like throwing out there.. I am happy with my job as a computer developer for a label manufactor. So if someone can use my ideas to make money and have the skills and resources to do it, I am more than happy to help.

You have a great community here and I do know it takes money to keep this place going. So I support you wanting to make it profitable.

Hmmm…. Very interesting

I took a quick peek at Zaadz about 6 weeks ago and wish I would have gone a bit deeper. The WIE article got me to sign up and see what’s happening.

This is one of the most interesting discussions I’ve read in a while.

The transparency is greatly appreciated.

Your vision and ability to state your business model has truely got me interested in participating.

Your description for a Zaadz oasis sounds very much like the lifestyle business we created in 1996. We took an old run down building in our downtown and “recycled” it with the help of Urban Evolutions creating a lifestyle experience center consisting of hair salon, day spa, veggie cafe and juice bar and environmental retail products store in 7000 sq. feet We had classroom space for yoga, qi gong, reiki, etc., live music, local art on the walls. We were constantly looking for ways to evolve our experience, educate and build a lifestyle brand. It was A LOT of fun. We decided we wanted to get into a creating a deeper expereince with a destination retreat concept and sold the original business with the idea that we would move to an area of the country more conducive to a destination experience.

Well we moved to Kauai and decided to take some time off, deepened with family, did some traveling and inner exploration. Three years have gone by…

I love the idea of integrating the BIg, Big, Big picture with the community and events. It makes sense and can be done, very well and very successfully if there is this network to support it. I agree with some of the commentors that it is going to be very challenging to “brand” this experience without feeling like a big business or out of touch. One of the challenges we had was the “coolness factor” with our team members. Some of the people that worked with us just couldn’t grasp the depth of the experience we were trying to create so they came off with too much ego or alluf, others were just so shy or without enough life experience to relate to the heart and soul connection that a place like this really needs to keep it real. Of course a business is just another “community” and we had all levels of development which is all part of our world we live in. It is unrealistic to think that everyone is going to evolve to the same level on the spiral at the same time and the trick as you get larger is how to appeal to as many levels of consciousness as possible while still being cutting edge. I see an array of integrated micro niches being guided here by passionate people translated into real world experiences.. This journey is inspiring.

I LOVE the the fact that you are openly talking about integrating spirituality and business.

I look forward to supporting the little and big pictures!

Mahalo,
Mark

a little late into the discussion I would like to contribute this:

boiled down arguments are reduced to intentions of the founders of Zaads:

service to self or service to others ?

even the most STO person eats drinks and has a home (and probably many more things); he does not create his food nor did he create the house he lives in (mostly).

the STO businessman also invests - that means he uses funds to expand his STO options - 

 another point is a core belief issue: If I have more does someone else have to have less? Not if the universe (god, all-that-is), functions the way I see it.

but we are already overpopulated .. are we?

a professor in Dallas once let his students guess how big the square would be that comfortably fits all now living humans - they where not allowed to calculate but to guess a comparable area.

most of course  where dead wrong and guess rediculously large areas like “all of europe” or  “all of america” - none guess even close to the right comparison which was e.g. greater L.A. (80x80 kilometers).

 he extended his question to the area a city would take up where these people (6 billion) could live in luxury (I think it went like this: no house bigger than 3 stories, everybody has his own room, 1 quarter of the city is parks, one is traffic, one housing and once recreation and commerce) that of course is quite big but only as big as Texas …

I dont think we suffer overpopulation, I believe we suffer underawareness.

 and I would love to head towards a Zaadz spa now and have a latté …

*Some thoughts after reading this blog;

(This is a copy of a letter sent to Brian as I recently joined Zaadz, he kindly asked me to add them to this thread here.) 

First, when I read your bio, I realised that by putting “capitalism” up fron as a value, this acted in a way as a gatekeeper, that people who didn't “get” he concept weren't yellow level, and would shy away. I might have been one of them except for having been on a spiritual retreat recently where one of the teachings was on the spiritualizing of money, and the conscious re-directing of this power into the hands of those doing the good work. This came partly from Alice Bailey tradition, where this is taught, in terms of the “New Group of World Servers” who require lots of money to do their good works.  The idea is to tip the scale so that the majority of funds/energy is in the hands of those doing good VS evil.  Some of this came from Lynne Twist's work too.

We were also given a mantra or a blessing to say as we spend or receive money; “May this money be purified of any negative accumulation. May it be charged with the energy of light, love and peace. May it be dedicated to the One Life”. Realising that money is energy as you say, a liquid energy, I realised that like the Hado experiments with water, its energy structure could be charged and changed. Like you said, like Lynne Twist, we need to change our consciousness toward money.

Reading the thread here, a few issues became apparent to me. To be any help in this world you need the financial savvy to maintain, sustain your program. (I sit on the board of my local community development corporation, they would not be able to build houses for the needy if they wern't fiscally responsible and solid.) I think this is a given. Does this require capitalism? No…If everything was just the exchange of goods and services as needed, that could fit in a non-profit model. (like the CDC in my community)

But capitalism is about profit, profit above and beyond what we need in the immediate future. Why do we need profit above and beyond what we need in the immediate future? Is it fear or desire? Fear or desire are the basis of ignorance and suffering if you believe the Buddha's insight. This is the way I comprehend the meaning of the concept of capitalism as it is currently used.

How do we change a system of exchange of energy from one based on fear or ignorance to one based on consciousness and love? To change why we want to have excess money - in order to have enough to help each other, not just ourself.

The other part of this, conceptually, is the idea that there are finite resources, that we have a limit, or lack, not enough to  go around. This creates fear consciousness, and clinging.  Buddha's lesson again, the source of ignorance!

Money as a resource is energy,  not based on physical objects at all! THere may be a finite amount of gold or steel or oil, or trees or water, etc, but never money. Money is a concept, value is in the eye (mind) of the beholder.  I  think that money as energy is related to energy resources more than physical resources, and that free energy, solar or wind or hydro, will flood the market with energy resources that will kind of be like when everyone has a lot of something it means less to them, the drive to make money will lose meaning, other pursuits will rise up in importance.  Maslow's Hierarchy comes to mind, when basic needs are met we rise to higher stages of development, above material needs and safety to education and growing our potential.

So I guess that what I come to is the idea that we need to re-direct the energy resource that is money, and plow it into good works, call this conscious capitalism.  I believe that the end result may very well be the demise of the capitalism of greed. In the mean time, existing in a capitalist society, we can make a difference by shifting more resources into the hands of more conscious people, who are less self interested, and more service oriented. Hopefully this shift will mean less consumption of things, less using up of material resources, and more spent on improving the condition of the planet and its people.

Writing this out is like a meditation, an insight process, its been helpful to me, to clarify my own thoughts.

sincerely,

Tamara

Wow, what a wonderful dialouge on the most critical question of our time…

In response to the definition/question of Capitalism:

I recently came across an essay (and pardon me for not remembering the exact source) that defined it as the “endless pursuit of capital”…Taken to an extreme that philosophy leads to violence for the sake of buisness and securing resources…thus the saying “Business is war”. This is at the core of the debate of big=bad. Can we create a capitalism that respects limits and where do we draw those limits? Is it still Capitalism then or has it become something else entirely?

What if the goal of capitalism were not the endless pursuit of resources but rather the constant generation of resources and renewal of energy or “Regenerative Capitalism”? I think that is at the core of the Zaadz philosophy if i am not mistaken…

By helping people renew a connection to the absolute source of psychic energy “the Highest self” or “Goddess” etc through books, writinging, discussion, events etc Zaadz is essentially adding more positive and creative MIND power to the world… the most valuable resource we have. So perhaps it is helpful to see the mission as being out to help as many minds (this includes the body in my opinion) generate the most energy for creative problem solving and creativity as possible. Not just simply bieng the “biggest Self Development center in the world” Perhaps its only semantics but words direct intentions as we all know:)

I am new to this community and am already in love just from reading this feed keep up the inspiring work. I am charged for the day….Thanks!

Wow. I'm sorry to join this conversation so late but I am glad to have joined Zaadz. I may be repeating other people's points but I just wanted to say a few things.

Firstly, I believe that the world stands on three things: Values, Work and Kindness. If you can integrate your talents, values, interests and passions into your work then more power to you. There is nothing wrong with making money from your values, if your values are what continue to drive you.

If anything, I think establishing sustainably planned, built and run companies that are socially responsible  is a great step forward. Not only is it money better spent than at companies (read multinationals and conglomerates) where this isn't the case but supporting such ventures provide examples to those companies and alternatives to consumers who want to spend responsibly.

Clearly, packaging things in nice yet rigid little packages and franchising it defeats the purpose. I don't think that is Zaadz's goal.

I myself would like to establish hotels, restaurants, spas etc that are built on that model. It is part of my life's goal but you can read that all in my profile. :) Heck now that I think about it, the Zaadz business plan and mine aren't too dissimilar from each other! 

 Anyway, I think I've made my points and look forward to collaborating with you all in one way or another :)

This is wonderful! I am proud to be a part of something that I believe will change the world!

I'm quite pleased to be a part of this idealistic venture. It's my first time actively blogging, too! It seems that this project has incredible potential, given the resources and proper direction and control. As a Voice Actor, I'd love to provide the Audible promotions and/or Spoken Dialogue for the good of this community and my business. If anyone is interested in discussing this with me, be sure to contact me (non-union). I'm all for “Conscious Capitalism” that benefits the Earth, its honest citizens and which propels our sense of connectedness and compassion.

When i read the media with which we are I feel it is quiet unclear.

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And it is unclear b/c of its business  model  I mean  

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To me the word Capitalism means

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See, Capitalism is something but

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In green nature I lived several months twice it happened, on just the vegetation that grows there.

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Further more, I know non of them capitalists.

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We can hold both sides with all respect; there could be a lot happening here before revenues find the river, and there could be an going discussion and events  if only (the wind) is blowing

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Alright, this is one of the best threads going on the site I think.

Brian,

First, THANK YOU for your elaboration. When you call it rambling, I think it invalidates what you are stating and the value others of us get from the details. So, say 'I should wind up' or something, but rambling to me tends to indicate going beyond the point, and most of what you state supports the point. Conscious business models require details and consciousness of details as far as I can tell.

Second, Phrasing of Capitalism. The way it is posted on your front page along with other terms I feel like is useful and helpful in seeing it as all part of the mix. Personally in reading through so much of the vision what I get is a commitment well beyond Capitalism, but clearly including it. I  liked the statement “Integrating Capitalism and Spirituality” vs. “Merging Spirituality and Capitalism. The first sounds more like a dance and mingling of the two vs. merging sounds like a crash of different ideas to me being their commonly used terminology in our society.

Projects - sound great overall from my view. I agreed on a few points made as far as what had people 'cringe'. I would encourage you to consider being 'the most respected brand in the field' or something, but for example Whole Foods is debatably by your own standards a desired long-term peer. I would say that from an Integral Business model, I am not sure you want to be the TOP of anything necessarily as much as consciously contributing to different people and situations. I would think the top name would come and go over time in reality, so in terms of reality and intent, would encourage different phrasing there. The Zaadz notes idea sounded MUCH better when you elaborated on the subject.

Vision - Overall I have a lot of respect for what you are after. I champion the success of this community and encourage you to maintain your vision. It is a definite dance of the desires going on. You clearly get a lot of criticism at different points and some good challenges coming your way. I would encourage you to include the future Joseph Campbells abd Gandhis of the world in your vision, and frankly it seems you are. Keeping things free and supported in different ways by those with means. I think that capitalism and monastics of sorts can and should coexist in different ways. I think that is part of integrating spirituality and business in our evolving collective future. I would think many of the best and most active minds and hearts may in fact be on retreats of sorts, drawing in information, sharing ideas, etc… and contributing to the threads going on. Ultimately I think many of these folks may be the upcoming teachers writing for your 'zaadz notes' and teaching at your conferences as they go into their periods of deep inner work and contemplation. Your needs serving theirs and vice versa. Much of the capital can and should come from people who are wanting the more cushy aspects of things. People with means for cruise vacations, spa packages, conferences, retreats, etc… and I think they can get better services from supporting the community which nurtures and evolves the cutting edges of things. I encourage a number of different creative options in funding also including sponsors for events and scholarships for people who may not have funds, but would be beneficial to their communities in different ways. I think amazing things could be done with different sponsors by doubling up with non-profit groups or including non-profit affiliated projects. 

Dynamic Tension - I encourage you to factor the anti-capitalists into the dialogues which ultimately it seems you have done and continue to do, to keep things in check a bit. Getting your feedback and criticism along the way within reason of course. The dynamic tension I think is what makes things interesting and as things grow to have different pods from different perspectives is useful. Bravo to the upcoming potential of many of the different upcoming tools I have read about in different areas. Considering what all this entails I have a lot of respect for your commitment to this project. Zaadz may be capitalist (qualified of course and guided by deep values), but others on it do not all have to be from what it seems to me.

I look forward to watching the evolution and being a part of it.

Regards,

David 

I don't know much about running a profitable business, but I do know about truth and good will.

 I see an awful lot of the later here.

i like the 'integrating conscious capitalism and spirituality' term. i like the idea of setting qualifiers on capitalism in that it encourages others to consider further distinctions around it as well. 'conscious capitalism', 'sustainable capitalism'… subtle distinctions perhaps at times, or not so subtle. blazing new trails.

seems to me a natural outcome of developing the vision of zaadz would be that there would be countless incredible businesses which are deeply respected and valued by people. zaadz may be an innovator and a leader in the field. interesting to think about the 'conscious fortune 500'

as i read all these terms, like 'profitability', it is amazing the social stigma and definitions of those terms. part of the zaadz work seems to be to blaze new trails around what words can mean and categories around them. maybe some qualified on the profitability as well, or perhaps not so much qualifier as clarifier. i like the fundamental meaning of profitable - ie. its needs are met and it is not operating poorly. 

advertising 

i was looking through a magazine and thinking about different possible banner ads and other ads, and frankly i am not sure it is such a scary idea if the right brands were sought out. i would love to see the basic ads from yoga journal, wie, and countless others on zaadz. would be a lot better than seeing the standard soda ads and non-consumer friendly vehicles. i like the 'progress' not perfection model as well. remembering that zaadz members are naturally conscious in different areas, and evolving in different areas, much like whole foods has their more natural products and then products which are more healthy alternatives. a range of options. i could easily see going after brands like target's environmentally friendly cleaners, or some of the hybrid cars and i would love to be in an environment that promotes conscious consumerism to some degree. some of the more visionary mac ads as well could be fun. some of that i would perhaps buy myself, some of that perhaps not, but others may enjoy it and it may be movement along their paths. better alternatives and transitional for them as they work to be more conscious.

what i personally enjoy about zaadz is the way that it is a melting pot for people who are working to be conscious in different ways, a place to mix, mingle, share, and at times clash and conflict in wonderfully consciousness raising ways. i don't mind if the advertising is an extension of that, and with somewhat targeted ads, hopefully i wouldn't be looking at a vegan pod with an add over it for consciously raised meat.  :-)

-d 

A conversation I'd love to hear:  

What are the semantic and real differences between John Mackey and David Korten regarding capitalism and the role of corporations?  How much common purpose do they share?  

I am writing to both to invite them to pow-wow and let us know what they say to one another.  

I don't see where John has a “public” schedule.  But I do see that David is scheduled to speak in Boulder in October.  A potential “loft” event?

p.s.  i simply “pooped out” on my earlier “future of capitalism” conference organizing [noted above] – swamped in my own personal bog of stuff.  this nudge here springs from the same impulse.

I was deeply stirred by reports of the uniquely profound and emergent ”transmission” that capped off the last Ingegral Spiritual Center Conference, and continue to hunger for similarly “convergent,” morphogenically-transformative events on equally important subjects like the future of capitalism.

rhobherto (and much is relevant to bri and others following this thread)…

love the direction you are thinking with a conscious capitalism conference. reminds me of the arnold mindell book 'dreambody in relationships' where he talks about conflict resolution and the energetics of that. the book is not about romantic relationships, but about overall personal, business, and communal dynamics of things. tells stories of a guy who was involved with hitler being in a room with some jews and others and his discussion of why he liked hitler and supported him at the time and the intensity of emotion going on. 

james hillman said something to someone who was grappling with two aspects of themself (in this case desire for money VS. desire to serve - i say 'vs' there because some see them as dualing and in many cases they are dualing and not integrated). anyhow, hillman said 'you and those two sides of you need to get together and sort it out' or something similar. essentially i think zaadz as a whole is a place for people to sort through many of these dualities. duality of 'stability' in a relationship vs. 'love' for example… or 'science vs. religion', or 'capitalism vs. spirituality'.

initially i was disturbed by how many zaadsters were wilber/integral institute oriented. i am still sorting through my relationship to wilber's work in fact and writing bits about that in my blog (a process in process surely, not in a fixed state by any means). over time i have come to see the potential in the wilber stuff and am overall impressed, with different criticisms and reservations. i bring up the integral aspect because i in fact thing that ultimately that is what zaadz is after… integral existence, although on their own platform.  

the potential of zaadz seems to be the 'duke it out' setting and i think the dynamic tension needs to be embraced here. done as respectfully as possible of course, but on some level it seems if zaadz is doing it right then we will be having heated discussions, passion, frustration, discouragement and a number of other emotions involved as we work in different areas to make global changes and integrate our own understanding of things.

a resource for us to do the internal work, and concept development work that we then take out and share in our lives in different ways. as napolean hill talks about  the whole 'mastermind' dynamics which wilber puts at a lower level than second tier, but frankly, i think is not so second tier in many concepts and that is one i think really applies… successful people have group mind dynamics that they tap into, and i think many people should be sorting through detail after detail on zaadz of issues, using the think tank dynamic to support a number of different areas ultimately - the consultants, advisors, specialists, etc… in a number of domains surrounding business, consciousness, relationships, etc…

so bravo for planting 'zaadz' around the conflict resolution and duking it out in that domain and whatever other areas you may pursue with your passions for conferences.

-d 

brian…

your mention of the whole foods guy, john mackey, and his going through and hacking out a path analogy definitely reminds me of the joseph campbell analogy of 'the hero with a thousand faces'. (of course i know some on here would dispute the heroism of mackey, at least the fullness of it). that said, he is working out some things on a large scale that will serve as a template in a number of ways, both his successes, failures, and all things in between through his blogging and sharing with employees and the public through his blog and other avenues.

in hero with a thousand faces, the journey of the hero takes one through obstacles and issues, they are rescued from someone outside of themself, they struggle, fight, hash their way through things, aand ultimately if they reach their destination they get their 'holy grail' which ideally they bring back for all to share. like gates and the windows platform. there are multiple grails being sought here on zaadz. one only needs to look at the pods to see that, and/or the profiles. 

yes, there are the grails that zaadz itself seeks as an entity and through partnerships with other entities, but those grails are clearly grails well beyond the interests of the organization itself. zaadz seeks to make grails possible for many in a number of different areas and to be a resource for people to consciously ADMIT they are seeking grails and get support for it. a place for visionaries to be 'out' and not shamed for being visionaries, mystics, healers, teachers, etc… and be supported for who they are. 

would LOVE to see your quotes from 'spiritual economics' in the quotes section. zaadz ultimately is creating a wonderful platform for masterminding, inspiration and from what it sounds like 'tools' for people to do all sorts of things powerfully and potently. 

to me it seems like zaadz has a brilliant core going on and comes from a particular level of inner vision and determination that is very refined. i would love to see tools and quotes that make that possible and help facilitate the inner development further and faster. i am thinking of some of the pods on business/entrepreneurism and the level that many are thinking on which seems very contracted and small to me at this point. confined and limited by ideas around money. i think zaadz in ways is an example of both using funds, but also using networking, vision, and mutual support, and not being limited by the standard ideas about funds.

i think money for example is wonderful, but is a tool. people often think 'i need money' when what they actually need and want is an object or experience and money may be one factor in that equation, but they have not learned to think beyond the concepts of money. while zaadz explores what it means to be in a conscious capitalist model of thinking, it seems the idea of money in some cases should be called into question. not that we should limit our having money, but there are countless times when i have done things (like catsit for friends of friends in nyc) which allowed me to have weeks/months studying with a friend on things that would have taken me longer to do had i had to get the money, rent a hotel or sublet an apartment, etc… etc…

napolean hill's books talk about people spending YEARS without money and then finally attaining it. campbell underlined sentences for 5 years prior to hero with a thousand faces. many brilliant works are years in the making. i guess i feel like the mentality around 'quick fix' is poor strategy in many cases. i say that mostly about pods and the posts i am seeing, which at some point i may comment on. people wanting to find ways to quickly be paid for their blogging or writing, when maybe they should hunker in and plan on it taking 10 years before they may see too many fruits of their labors, and be thrilled when it may happen sooner. mastery takes time and people seem to want to be masters in a couple years. we even say someone has a master's degree after 6 years of school in this country. 

in the land of zaadz i think many really need to rethink their planning. the sun tzu quote 'those whose strategies are deep and far reaching have won the war before they have gone to battle' comes to mind. 

zaadz is about seeds. seeds take time. some seeds take generations to reach full growth.  we need to remember that and not be rushing around ripping up plants that will come to full fruition with patience.  

-d 

Oh my.

This is brilliant.

I'm only going to tack on a few words here, inspired by David's talk of seeds and time. What I love about Zaadz is that, in addition to growth and the dissemination implied by the concept of 'seeds', there is also a depth and rootedness inherent in the idea. If Zaadz is to spread, and if Zaadz is to expand upward in the spiritual sense, it must also grow deep, and this involves, at least in part, the sorts of conversations around money and the broader implications of capitalism happening here. Brilliant.

What I'd also like to recognize, and expression a tremendous amount of gratitude for, is what a phenomenal job you've done at creating, and holding, a space for people. It's one of the things I love most about Zaadz – how it functions as such an amazing container / incubator for all of our dreams and desires and interactions. And while I find this invaluable, it's also something I'd love to support finanicially. So is there any way you could set up a donation area? For those of us who'd want to put our money where our mouths / fingertips are? Please?

brian…

this blog and comments is getting long, maybe we could do some sort of reverse order thing to see most recent comments first, like with the blogs starting with most recent, and then having page options at the bottom so it is not so long all at once to load. if it is not too much trouble for your little wizards to do so. :-)

i found this AMAZING Osho quote stuff today that i wanted to share your direction and with others following all this interaction.

“The new man will not be either/or; he will be both/and. The new man will be earthy and divine, worldly and other-worldly. The new man will accept his totality and he will live it without any inner division, he will not be split. His god will not be opposed to the devil, his morality will not be opposed to immorality; he will know no opposition. He will transcend duality, he will not be schizophrenic. With the new man there will come a new world, because the new man will perceive in a qualitatively different way and he will live a totally different life which has not been lived yet. He will be a mystic, a poet, a scientist, all together. He will not choose: he will be choicelessly himself.”

and a bit more:

“My concept of the new man is that he will be Zorba the Greek and he will also be Gautam the Buddha: the new man will be Zorba the Buddha. He will be sensuous and spiritual, physical, utterly physical, in the body, in the senses, enjoying the body and all that the body makes possible, and still a great consciousness, a great witnessing will be there. He will be Christ and Epicurus together.”

“The old man's ideal was renunciation; the new man's ideal will be rejoicing. And this new man is coming every day, he is arriving every day. People have not yet become aware of him. In fact he has already dawned. The old is dying, the old is on its death-bed. I don't mourn for it and I say please don't mourn for it. It is good that it dies, because out of its death the new will assert. The death of the old will be the beginning of the new. The new can come only when the old has died utterly.”

the whole thread is at: this link 

love the seeds quote! and to offer an archetype that i often use in my own psyche as i go through this human experience, i think of the redwoods and how HUGE they are and how OLD they are, and how their roots must be down there to hold their trunk up.

-d 

Pretty presumptive for me to invite John Mackey and David Korten over to Ken Wilber's loft for tea and talk, eh?    

 I have to say though that, really, my emphasis was on recognizing the tremendous common purpose these men share, and not so much on “conflict resolution.”  I see them sharing a world-full of common purpose, while maybe having a room-full of differences – some of those simply semantic.   

There are everyday choices – energy and food choices, especially – that millions and billions are making that are compromising and jeopardizing our future.  Korten and Mackey are among a vanguard – not antagonists, but allies – inviting us to make different choices – choices that preserve and expand that future.  

I was not pitching a rumble with Wilber as zebra-shirted referee, but a marriage of the tremendous amount of passison and commitment toward a better world that both Korten and Mackey marshal, with Ken as “witness” of the match.  

Hey, I'd just love to see John and David simply trade notes.  But a future Kdub blog entry about such a meeting – ” “Today in the loft, allied change-agents John Mackey and David Korten sat down with Ken to spin the dream.” – would be super sweet!  

Just a day dream.

“Love the seeds quote! and to offer an archetype that i often use in my own psyche as i go through this human experience, i think of the redwoods and how HUGE they are and how OLD they are, and how their roots must be down there to hold their trunk up.”

The interesting thing about the redwoods is that their roots don't go deep.  They actually are shallow and go out in a radius.  That is why redwoods are in groups, their roots intertwine so that they hold each other upright.  One will not fall because they are all supported by the community network of interwoven roots. 

 I really like what I see here and believe that capitalism is merely a system of energy and resources symbolized by currency.  How we choose to imbue it with our intent determines the role it plays in our lives and in the world.  What is your intent and what context do you want to manifest to incubate and grow your vision/part of the world dream?  I see hearfelt vision in Zaadz and welcome an opportunity to become a part of its unfoldment.

Capitalizing on consciousness, you have managed to build quite an impressive think tank over 12.000 strong in less than a year from all traditions and points of view, Amazing! I’m thinking this may be the way we need to employ capitalistic strategy from now on, it’s a win , win deal with no-one losing anything in the end! Bravo Brian and team! Let me know if I can help! You have my sword.

ouch - I think I strained a brain muscle reading all the way down here… anyway!

I think the big=bad / capitalism = bad / money = bad topics have been well addressed and I love the ”money is energy” point… and now I'm rambling ;-)

Wanted to take a step back from the discussion just slightly for the benefit of all and add a different perspective.

If we agree (loosely) that we are all connected and are engaged in the pursuit of experiencing our many selves in a move towards eventual unity then at some point it was inevitable that an accessible means of mass-communication would be manifested to facilitate this.

This (I believe) would be a metaphysical explanation for the birth of the internet. A kind of technological manifestation of the Jungian collective unconscious.

 Zaadz being a collection of like minded individuals engaged and growing in order to further accelerate the changes everyone subconsciously believes need to happen in order to preserve life on earth.

I'm sure as momentum continues to grow the ethical business model (lacks depth that description, nevermind) will stabilise and other even better theories and strategies will emerge.

IN THE MEANTIME, if we step back (back to the point! phew) it's paramount to recognise Zaadz could well be the vanguard for the Capitalism 2.0 (Web 2.0 - lol) REVOLUTION!

So lets all get involved aright?!

From my own recent experiences I know that there are no coincidences and applaud every single one of the people here - ITS SO EXCITING!

RE: eventual unity

We are all already connected (i.e. unity).  We may not be in haromony, but were are One.

Hola, Brian!

Wow. First of all, as someone who only recently discovered Zaadz, let me tell you how much I am loving it. I have yet to write my own profile description, but I've been browsing, doing a plenty of reading, and am already a full “convert” (for the lack of a better word). There are, however, a few minor issues I wanted to mention, which, though I didn't originally intend to, I ended up discussing at length below (some do not relate to the Business Model, but it is about Zaadz, and if it's about Zaadz, then it's about Zaadz' business… well, you get the idea).

As many others who wrote here, I had my concerns about this Business Model; particularly the whole “Zaadz becomes Starbucks” issue. As Sarah (who coined the phrase :) ) already clarified, the issue is not that “big = bad”, necessarily. But - allow this little young'un to get a little philosophical before THE Philosopher here - as humans gain power and money (which is bound to happen to developers of Zaadz, should/when the plan above is put to action), their initial, optimistic visions often tend to blur, and possibly, fade into the background. Now, with the vision like that of Zaadz, this would be much less likely to occur (or so I hope); and reading through some of your writings, I can presume that you're already aware of such effects of corporate expansion. So, I will no longer dwell on this big philosophical issue (or, at least, philosophical as can be to a sixteen-year-old student).

A concern that I would like to address now (I don't think it came up yet - I never said I read through this whole string of comments!) is about the Zaadz Resorts. I'll try to explain from my memory of the description up THERE, since I'm just too lazy to scroll all… the way… up… AGAIN (gotta put that on my goals list - stop being lazy!). Seeing that you're a vegan - and hence, environmentally conscious - have you thought about how building these mega-resorts in these “exotic” locations will effect the locations as well as the locals?

Oy, that's one confusing sentence - so let me rephrase myself. These places - “the Bahamas to Fiji to Hawaii” (I cheated and opened a new window)  - are already thriving vacation spots, filled with hotels and tourists. And this, as you probably know, is not a very good thing. Trees getting bulldozed down to open up land for building a sleek hotel where the litterbug tourists can vacation at… somehow just doesn't scream “eco-friendly”.

Now, I'm sure that you weren't as hasty as not think of these things when planning the Business Model. You'll probably build the resorts so that they blend with the environment rather than disrupting it. They'll probably be built with eco-friendly material. You'll probably urge the guests to please restrain from destroying the environment by kindly recycling your wastes, thank you.

You'll probably make sure that, when these people are being taught about “eco-friendly living”, the place itself is in fact eco-friendly. More summer camp than, say, Hilton Hawaii.

So I'll now digress from things that you probably know already, onto things that may have slipped your mind. (Okay, well, maybe not exactly slipped your mind… things you probably also knew already, but just didn't emphasize enough.)

Let me tell you, one of the things I love the most about Zaadz is its mission statement, “Let's change the world.” It immediately sets Zaadz apart from the whol mess of social network sites out there. It's just exactly the kind of site I'd want to create if I had the resource and the experience to.

But amid all this talk of changing the world, I can't help feeling something's missing.

When we talk of changing the WORLD, it seems like we aren't focusing enough on the areas of the world that really need some serious change. Why doesn't the mission statement on the front page say a word about activism? Money, in turn, is mentioned more than once: the “capitalism” we're all talking about here, and the “wealth and all that good stuff”, which, looking at the original context, is supposedly up to par with “wisdom and inspiration”.

Sure, in the society that we live in, money is more important than it should be in making the world go 'round. But why should Zaadz - a site dedicated to changing the world, and thus, changing the way that world goes 'round - be more concerned about money than those poor souls halfway around the world getting killed in wars (which were, in some cruel twist, initiated by the money hungry governments of the world)? Not only that, but why shouldn't one of Zaadz' focuses be helping those poor souls in our effort to change the world?

From being a member of Zaadz for a past week or so, I understand that Zaadz is mainly concerned about improving the individual, one at a time. And it's a good philosophy; in fact, that's the only way we will change the world - by changing one person at a time. But the way Zaadz approaches this improvement of the individual could be… well, improved.

Self-help books are nice. Inspirational quotes are just that, inspirational. Yoga, good nutrition, excercise, spas… all great for making a healthy individual. So let's say the Zaadzsters do all that, and once we're at peace with ourselves, relaxed, healthy, and filled with spiritual advice from “gurus” we paid hundreds to listen to… then what? Do we just continue going to seminars, doing our daily yoga, buying organic foods from Whole Foods, reading self-help books… just doing what's good for ourselves?

In reading your plans for the future of Zaadz, I was hoping to see a whole lot more talk of activism, awareness raising for various issues, and just more effort to help those who spend their time running from bombs and searching for scraps of food to feed their children than doing yoga and thinking about how to breathe correctly. Instead, I found “Zaadz Oasis” and “Zaadz Resorts” which, to be frank, sound a bit snobby and too “fish in the small pond” to me. When you do arrive at the stage where these things become a realiy, will you think that Zaadz' mission to change the world is being realized? But how can we even enjoy such things when there are people deprived of even the simplest necessities of life in the world we're trying to improve?

So unless the “world” we're referring to is only the Northwestern part of the actual world, we, in trying to change the world, must put much more effort into helping those neglected by the rest of the society. 

If all that didn't do anything for ya, let me just tell you this: MySpace has more groups about human rights and activism than we do. Madness! We cannot allow this to continue!

Heh, alright, half kidding there. But I hope you get my idea. I mean, I realize that so far Zaadz' main focus has been personal change and improvement. And I think that's great and should continue. But I'm just saying, we have room to add another notch on our belt, no? Encourage Zaadsters to list more volunteering opportunities on the zEvents page, create more activism oriented zPods on causes that Zaadsters are concerned about… just small things like that.

Reading over what I wrote, I realize that I got maybe a bit too critical of Zaadz halfway through. But what I said in the beginning about loving Zaadz and its mission still stands. More importantly, you must know why I put so much time into writing this long comment - or rather, a preposition! - here.

First off, I wouldn't be writing this if I didn't think that Zaadz will make a huge impact. Why waste time submitting ideas to something I don't believe in? But besides that, on a smaller scale, I really believe that Zaadz can be a tool to change the way people socialize online and even the face of the internet. That may not sound like much coming from a teenager, but consider this: I, for one, do not want to be the child of the “MySpace generation”. But see, if/when Zaadz becomes “big big big (really big!)”, it just might attract more of those former MySpacers (like myself) who are more concerned about changing the world than changing their profile picture. Then, maybe, just maybe, a “tipping point” will occur. Being emo or “scene” or a Paris HIlton clone will no longer be the “cool” thing - Zaadz will.

Okay, I know some of you would shiver at the thought of bunch of tEeNaGeRs taking over Zaadz - hell, I shiver at that thought, and I'm a teenager myself! - but let me tell you something that might relieve some panic. See, teenagers have the herd mentality. No matter how “original” most claim to be, only few are the leaders, and the rest follow. So far, with MySpace and other things that have come out of our generation, these “leaders” have led their herd in a not-so-good direction. But imagine if the herd took a U-turn and ended at Zaadz. They'll be inspired. They'll feel comfortable. They'll maybe even like it. [collective gasp here] 

Then, when people my age talk about “going online”, they will no longer be talking about going on MySpace and obsessing over whether or not they got a new comment - they'll be talking about logging on to Zaadz and surfing through loads and loads of inspirational things. And, who knows, it might even help shape them to be a better person. Not fixated on the vainities that fade away, but on things that help themselves and others.

And finally, I will get my wish: we will no longer be labeled the “MySpace generation”, with all its negative connotations, but the “Zaadz generation”, a generation that planted the seed for a better world.

My goodness, I just wrote a whole essay there, didn't I? Could I get an applause? …At least a cookie?

Hola again!

Aw Brian, you're being too kind. Thanks for all those encouragements for this little young'un.

For some reason, “eco-resorts” sounds so much better than just “resort”. I don't know, maybe it's just my preconceived notions, but the “eco” makes anything sound better, no? (I tell ya, if anyone wants to sell me something, all they have to do is just throw in the words “eco” and/or “Hawaiian” in the product name… those things just get me!) You may have just thrown those words in, but I really think that should be the official name - it may also help set Zaadz resorts apart from other resorts and attract more people.

About the money issue: I knew I was being naive about something. I knew that money was an unavoidable subject in activism (which, by the way, is just the word I use to refer to the action of helping those in need, advocating issues that the world needs to be aware of, and other things of that nature. I note this because seeing from your quotation of the word activists, there seems to be some sort of political association with the word that I still haven't learned of. my use of the word is purely for grouping that particular passion of mine without having to list all issues that I'm concerned about.) but I did not know exactly how the two intertwined. Thank you very much for clarifying that.

The points you made there (“…if we look at those places in the world where the most people are suffering-through war/poverty/disease/etc-we see that, more than any other factor, they all share the common factor of systems that restrict entrepreneurialism and free markets.”) could very well be the bridge between the current focus of Zaadz and the aspect of activism.

And I'm just so glad to hear that you're not shunning out the activism deal. Perhaps it's just the selfish goal of my own, but it is something that many people are very passionate about and I just think, couldn't hurt anyone to add that aspect to Zaadz, y'know?

Anyhoo, thanks again for replying to my humble (long and critical-sounding, yes, but meant to be humble :D) comment.

Oh, and one last thing - ME ON THE ZAADZ TEAM?! Hahah, I'm sure you mean the ambassador team, but you had me so excited there for a minute at the thought of working for Zaadz! Sheesh, just for that I should pretend I misinterpreted you and start torturing you by saying things like “SO WHEN CAN I START WORKING?” and when you explain that you didn't mean for me to work at Zaadz, “BUT HOW COULD YOU… BUT I THOUGHT…” and burst out crying. Yessir, ain't no worse feeling than making a little girl cry. Heeee.

Aloha Carrie,

I’ve just read your dialog with Brian. You are extremely good at expressing yourself and sharing your vision and concerns for Zaadz. Being that I am older my first exposure to MySpace was with a group of teens I was leading last year. I thought the whole thing was so self absorbed but I’ve been studying it and understand it and know that we are just on the tip of what social networking will become. I am so happy to have Zaadz as a healthy alternative and see people like you as helping to lead the way. One of my many visions, and I get to do this in little ways every day, is to help people like you continue to flow with your actions of changing the world. I love to see inspired youth making a difference and speaking up like you have. Keep it up!

I truly believe that social networking can be a springboard for positive social change and I am looking forward to helping Zaadz grow and integrating positive proactive social change.

The eco-resort / oasis is a wonderful idea in that in collects the virtual activity that happens on Zaadz and gives it a way to express itself through another medium. Nothing can replace real world, face to face relationships and I see us having these eco-resorts as a place to recharge and reactivate and co-create new life experiences together. …and Zaadz is a great place to keep the action and conversations going.

Brian, I would love to help create the eco-resort / oasis concept. I am the former owner of a lifestyle experience center where we combined a salon, day spa, eco-store and veggie cafe that my wife and I created. We brought the things we were passionate about together to share an integrated lifestyle experience through education and everyday practice.

Our vision has been to take that life experience we created and to go deeper… We have been looking to co-create an eco resort / retreat / summer camp / experience center / fuffy cowboy dude ranch :) , etc. where we could play and learn and grow. There are SO MANY possibilities here. I would love to play and support Zaadz in this too!

Peace,
Mark

Brian,
I read the WHOLE thread…and I just want go back to some basics…
Capitalism is not a bad word, a dirty thought, or a negative Karmic action. Capitalism is just another part of the Gestalt being and the universal balance. Without the mistakes of the B.Z. generations (Before Zaadz), would we be here now…having these discussions that will, in fact, manifest change?
Sticking with the idea that less is more…might I just suggest the idea that everyone check their motives. Always check your motive no matter what you are doing. Are you genuine, authentic, sincere, and living in your heart? Stop, breathe, breathe deep, and really honor yourself and just ponder before you answer. (By the way, I’m not looking for a response..it is really just for you to consider) Their is no wrong answer…just different filters. What was anyones motive to share their POV? To be right? To prove someone wrong? To manifest failure or manifest success? The universe is listening…always.
If your motives are “good” big=good, medium=good, small=good, none of that matters…and are there not gifts in all aspects of life, good and bad? If it is true then: good=bad=good? If these ideas are integrated, universal, and unable to be separated, then can we create anything material/capitalistic in this universe that does not produce energy on both sides of the balance. Don’t we need evil to see goodness? Terms like “eco-friendly” only sprouted from consequences not antecedents.
Talk about rambling…

Zaadz for me is a wonderful community and the gifts I have and will receive as a part of this community is far greater than any amount of money that I may or may not have to give to this, or any other future Zaadz project. Additionally, I would not have received those priceless gifts without the monetary investment that is already in place for this community to exist. I don’t believe the discussion should revolve around capitalism. Capitalism is an outdated lexis for Zaadz. We need a new word that describes humanitarian attempts in creating a better world and needing the finances to feed those goals to fruition.

Thanks for giving me the place to share…
Helping to create a Brave New World one exhale at a time…
Eden
PS- In case anyone is asking what was my motive…I am learning to speak up and out…despite my fears: ” individuation only enlarges one’s connection” - Jung

Brian,  There are those of us who may be considered elders in the capitalistic / spiritual world.  I mean those who have lived long enough to have been out there in the trenches carvingand chipping away the dross as we go about our business of making money in a conscious and ethical way. I might suggest that as long as capitalism and spirituality appear to be at different positions on the human experience spectrum it will be difficult to operate at thehighest capacity. Co-ordinated and integrated expression of the entire spectrum is what it takes. Ingrained ideas and thoughts about spiritually or capitalism is what stands in the way of such an expression. As usual it is about our little minds getting the way of the big picture. 

:)  Smiling at Haydn's comments :)

As I was reading down this long thread I came to Carrie Agnes's post and was thinking to myself, if Brian doesn't hire her on the spot, I am outta here because he's not too bright. But Brian did offer her a job and I am still here. I'd like to respond a bit to Carrie by saying 1. you are very bright 2. while being bright is a good thing, it is meaningless without 2 other things a. the capacity for compassion for your fellow human beings b. the ability to be flexible and respond to new ideas and environments.  You have the whole package. Many people get stuck in their habitual mind sets and cannot be open to new points of view. This stalls a person's evolution whether you are 16 or 60. Haydn's post gets it.

Regarding money/capitialism. Money is the life force of the world. Just like breath must be circulated in the body, money must be circulated in the world. All of life is based on reciprocity.  Feed yourself and you can feed others. So this applies to individuals AND to business.
I agree with Brian's responses to this issue. Furthermore, in the offshoots proposed by Zaadz, this money will circulate to provide jobs in the community.
Branding is important. Let's face it we are all inundated by information. You have to make a big noise to be heard. Chopra took 5,000 y.o. yoga philosophy and made it digestable to people through his books. Then he “branded” and marketed. He has spas. Ok? You can't go to his spa without having to be educated on SOME level about yoga. He's making a ton of money, but his “brand” , if not him personally, is educating and adding VALUE to people's lives.  We are not selling a widget that will end up in the land fill here. We are adding value and clarity to people's lives. This in turn, evolves the planet.

Ultimately, it is every one's personal responsibility to do the inner work. No organization or guru can do the work for you. We can only offer a door way to walk through…Zaadz can be that doorway.
One point I would like to add my voice to Carrie's and that is the activist aspect of Zaadz. I think it needs to be emphasized. Just about everyone I have seen on here so far is actually DOING something in the world…this is what makes Zaadz, Zaadz. And to be perfectly honest, is to me, an important part of your “branding”. From my background in yoga, (real yoga, not Hollywood yoga) I feel that it is not enough to agree with principles, you must live what you believe.   For example, I am working with Mark Whitwell now on a project to bring people of various ethnic and religious backgrounds from the middle east to train them as yoga teachers, together. (Email for more info if you are interested.)  To me, this is the ultimate purpose of a charity foundation/non-profit.    It's the old cliche, yet truth–give a person a fish and they eat for a day, teach a person to fish and they eat for a lifetime.
So hey, Brian, I've got the whole package too…I'd love to address the foundation aspect of Zaadz, need some help?

Parri said: <<It's the old cliche, yet truth–give a person a fish and they eat for a day, teach a person to fish and they eat for a lifetime>>  C~Chaos's blog post features an interview of social entrepreneur Bill Drayton,  the founder of Ashoka talks about how go beyond that statement to help create the fishing enterprise.  Ashoka does some great things.  They support a program called Youth Venture working with young people to build socially conscious businesses within their communities.

The concept of action through social entrepreneurship is evolutionary.  It takes a large paradigm shift to realize that it is not capitalism that this the challenge.  The challenge is some of the methods and measurements that are focused on.  If success models can be developed from 2nd tier integral business aweness then we have new conscious organizations that take in a wider and broader scope of influence.  This is definitely happening in the world today.  I am extremely optimistic that real change can come through  this growing current of conscious capitalism.

When I was with the Aveda organization Horst, Aveda's founder, would talk to us  using the term eco-nomics to help shift  paradigms to environmentally conscious capitalism. 

One of the greatest actions that I think Zaadz can do is combine the hearts and minds of the Zaadz community to share the visions and passions of conscious living in all aspects of our life.  If we can find a way to support the pioneers and be breezes that lift each others wings we will truly soar.

If you haven't already had this idea maybe someone within the community would like to start interviewing Zaadz members in depth about the conscious actions and conscious projects that they are active with and would like to shine more light on or have help and support, etc..  and put this into some kind of resource area, magazine, newsletter, etc. 

For the record:  

My stab at matchmaking between David Korten and John Mackey has fallen ftat.  

I pitched the idea to John as a comment on his blog.  Another reader (“Audie Alcorn”) there ran, not with the idea of John and David having a chat, but John and Ken Wilber – unaware that here's a match that has already been made.  In a reply, Mr. Mackey linked to his published conversations with Ken and noted that he has recently joined the BOD of Integral Institute, but did not “bite” at the prospect and made no mention of meeting with Dr. Korten.  

Today, Dr. Korten replied to me directly, demurring out loud: “I have a very full plate.”  

Ah, well.      

__________________________________________________


A related quote from Kdubya's commentary on the outbreak of war in Iraq (in my view, clearly a “peak oil” war instigated at the behest of several Anglo-American oil giants, and an instance of “market penetration” – and “mega-corporation” malfeasance – by military means [nothing new, btw]): 
   

Still, the world has to do what the world has to do. My own belief is that, in the coming century, we will see the present United Nations peacefully replaced by the first move toward a genuine World Federation, driven particularly by threats to the global commons that cannot be handled on a national level (such as terrorism, global monetary and economic policy, and environmental threats to the global commons).

     I believe that the first World Federation will likely be orange-to-green. My hope is that it will be healthy green, but who knows? I believe that any such green World Federation will make substantial strides toward world harmony, but it will eventually face the inherent limitations and contradictions of all first-tier perspectives. The equivalent of worldwide, politically-correct thought-police will surface-a green Inquisition, if you will-whose subtle brutalities, accompanied by a series of extremely unpleasant economic events brought about by green's hobbling of orange business, will force a second-tier, yellow, World Federation to move haltingly into place. (Orange business cripples ecology; ecological green cripples orange business; both are forms of first-tier violence, neither of which is countenanced by yellow, and thus the first World Federation will likely be characterized, among numerous other forms of wholeness in practice, by a reconciliation between capitalism and ecology.) But that, I believe, will be at least a century or so away.

     Until that time, I harbor the pain of vision unrequited. Until that time, the loneliness of integral heavily weighs on any who yearn for wholeness in action. Until that time, the bright promise of a tomorrow that coheres is no consolation but source of torment, for those of you who are so cursed.

     Until that time-and given that today no government, no protest movement, and no national or international policy is yet integral-one is forced to ask: what can I personally do in the face of today's dire circumstances? Here I can only repeat what I said in my earlier comment, and I do mean this with deep conviction:

     unfortunately, the world needs integral action. unfortunately, it will not get it, whether we go to war or not. still, better to light one candle than curse the darkness. so we work on ourselves and attempt to increase our own integral consciousness to some degree each day, so that in the end we leave the world just a little bit more whole than we found it………….

kw

14 april, 2003.

[emphasis added]


Continuing to look forward to the “reconciliation between capitalism and ecology” and future confabs, big and small, on conscious capitalism.

~r

word from Jeff Klein (deserving note here):

Greetings all,

I am happy to announce that we are extending the date for applications to the Working for Good Business Plan Competition to 11/30/06.

We encourage you to submit your inspired visions and plans. http://www.zaadz.com/survey/take/working_for_good_business_plan_contest

Many developments with W4G in the works, to be announced soon.

Please check out Peace Through Commerce and join us in Washington, DC on September 30th for the PTC launch. http://www.flowproject.org/PTC.html. [<–very cool! ~r]

Yours in Working for Good,

Jeff

http://www.causealliancemarketing.com/
http://www.workingforgood.com/
http://www.flowidealism.org/
http://babajeff.zaadz.com/


Cool!  Thank you, Jeff! 

So, go check it out. And bust a move!

i love to read the plans to change the world.
i believe it's not only possible, but already in the works.

i have my own cure for the world, and much of it i have also read at http://www.Ecoize.com among the many types of articles they have.

i believe that deciding to remain child-free will help enormously since tens of thousands of children die every day just from starvation, and many more from diseases.
i don't believe abortion is right.
i believe good birth control, especially vasectomies, shoudl become de rigeur at least among the enlightened.

i think those who wish to raise children should adopt if they really care. IF they really care.
it's so selfish to have a child in today's world, since to have one means to give resources  to only one that could save many dying children.

also, going vegan will save not only the lives of countless suffering fellow animals, beings with souls and goals just like our own, beings who cannot speak for themselves and must depend upon our specie to save all the rest - but also will save our own lives in several ways :
even CNN reported recently that what we've known all along is true - vegans live longer, are stronger, healthier, and thrive.
growing veggies, fruits, and nuts and seeds saves forests and jungles.
raising so-called “farm” animals causes much destruction of habitat, razing of trees, causing drought, causes air pollution on a mighty scale, and water pollution of astronomical proportions.

The destruction of the environment is monumental by the meat and dairy industries, and is mirrored in the horrible destruction of a person's body who consumes this disgusting fare. Eating like a vulture only creates a graveyard in one's body.

So, to heal the world, not only will there be less crime and more bounty with vegan diets overall - why?
because much of the violence of societies is due to the wrong diet for our species, coupled with the added fats, sugars, and chemicals, and the adrenalin from the terrifying deaths these innocent animals have and to other additives to these food items.
And because giving the body the proper foods - veggies, fruits, nuts, and seeds - will heal the body, heal the temperament, create a better life and a better person overall.

Also, this will make the peace we all desire possible all over the world.
Much of the conflict of the nations can be healed when individuals become healed and enlightened, then solutions using logic will be found.

This is my cure for everything and it's very possible.

i hope more and more will adopt being child-free, vegan, becoming activists and seeking only peaceful solutioins to everything in the world.

Yes, i'm Utopian and aren't all the people who want change?

and Yes, it's very practical too.

oh, yes, using arable land and indoor growing will not only save forests, but it will - if organic, which is all i advocate - save the atmosphere and water since only organic farming methods will prevail.

nothing else will really help our planet in the time frame necessary.

we need major changes and fast.

i hope there are more who agree with me.
pelase let me know.
thanks,
Ocean

Hmmm, capitalism. Gotta love it, no wait-it’s completely evil…….lol, god it’s confusing! Don’t you jusy love duality? Well, the system is inherently selfish in my opinion. Man, isn’t that what makes it work? If it is true that it is inherently selfish, then to me it is also inherently ‘anti-spiritual’. The question i have then is this: can the system change and can it change soon enough? NoW, 15 yrs ago i would have said we are toast. Today, i think we stand a chance. I think the big bad ‘ism’ is capable of adapting and growing into something that is at least ‘enlightened self-interest’. Well, this is my mimimum hope anyway. Oh darn, maybe i’m delusional after all…lol

I am just poophed just reading through some of these great posts. Brian I loved your intention, committment and vision for Zaadz and all the cool creative people who have assembled here…just awesome!  I am very excited because i see how the vision I had back in 2001 is taking form in many ways in many directions.

I know zaadz has to become profitable financially in order to thrive, not just survive. Could we create a different business model here…focusing attention on how to make the zaadsters/ambassadors and entrepreneurs successful …nurture each seed and promote them in ways that they become succesful…and Zaadz derive a portion of their income/sale…may be not just publishing but a whole suite of services (as in Amazon/ebay have a zaad branding/section maybe)…how each can make others successful by sharing specific knowledge and expertise….idea is to nurture the seeds..so once these independant/small entreprenurs start producing fruits…a portion is harvested by parent Zaadz. Zaadz mission should include making zaadsters with creative services/products/talents succesful.

I like to see Zaadz start taking membership for a small fee $20 a year (and may be premier fee) and give them many freebies -services, local directory, free products, e-zines,  offered by zaadzsters, who in turn gets new contacts/clients from member subscriptions. Keep the fee low for solo-E's with low income or sign-up free for 3 months.
Create internal barter/mentor networks for sharing knowledge, service or products.

Conscious Capitalism is a big arena and bringing truth out takes great courage and fearlessness. I am neither for or against Capitalism, but I see serious mathematical, logical and moral problems with the kind of money we are using. See my blog
and my article on Transforming Money.

All the best


 

I'm happy to read about how ambitious some people are and trying to make it work. I know Zaadz will work.

I first heard about Zaadz months ago while attending an I-WET weekend, but it’s taken me a while to finally sign up (the recent WIE article helped inspire me).

The earlier comments referenced from OSHO (previuosly known as Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, otherwise known as the Rolls Royce Guru, who’s cult commited the first act of bio-terrorism in this country’s history–sorry, I digress) rang true to me and I think speaks to this whole dialogue about spirit and $$$. The Integrally Yellow/Second Tier/New Man will embrace both God and Money, Money AS God, and it’ll all be good!

Personally, I run a small business as a private psychotherapist and I think I’m good at what I do. My practice is Integrally Informed–I’ve received training from Integral Institute. And I have no problem accepting money for my expertise because I’m offering a service that isn’t easy to find, even here in Boston where there’s a psychotherapist on every street corner.

So if Zaadz can figure out a way to make money while also helping to enlighten the world, more power to Brian! And I would love to go to a Zaadz resort with my partner. What a great way to hang out and connect with other conscious, spiritually inclined beings! Sign me up for some of that!

The dialog that's happening here - whether it is possible to have “good” capitalism and what that might look like - is exactly what's needed….can you imagine the good that can come if that dialog is expanded to a national and global scale?

While I, like a lot of others,  were a little put off by some of the examples given to support Bri's mission statement (e.g., getting the chance to feel all smug if I can afford to drop $40K on an eco-friendly, whole-grain enlightment retreat in Fiji), I generally come down in full support of the concept.   So how do we employ capitalism effectively while still practicing those values we hold as inviolable?  Is it possible to move forward without getting stuck on the horns of the dilemma?  In the Art of Loving, Erich Fromm discusses the same thing:

“If our whole social and economic organization is based on each one seeking his own advantage, if it is governed by the principle of egotism tempered only by the ethical principle of fairness, how can one do business, how can one act within the framework of existing society and at the same time practice love?…Even if one recognizes the principle of capitalism as being incompatible with the principle of love, one must admit that 'capitalism' is in itself a complex and constantly changing structure which still permits a good deal of non-conformity and personal latitude.”

When framing the debate, it is important IMO to keep (at least) to keep in the forefront 2 key points: That capitalism is not a static entity but a constantly evolving, morphing and self-organizing dynamic process.  Secondly, it is helpful to view capitalism as many prominent macro-economists viewed it (a la Keynes, Smith, even Marx)a technology.  Specifically, the big 'C' is a technology used to bring goods and services to those that need them (yes, keeping in mind the relative aspects of “need”) in the most efficient manner possible.  Capitalism has I think proven over its 40,000 years of evolution that there is no more efficient  way to create non-zero-sum interactions between individuals, societies or nation-states…that's why it has been so incredibly successful.  When viewed this way, it is easy to see that the script for C has not been written; indeed it is being written as we speak and so we can effect that; and we can also see how critical it is to harness the tremendous power of this technology to do as much good as possible, and to do as little harm. 

In other words,  perhaps it's not capitalism we have issue with as much as the blindly insensitive, exploitive versions we see employed so commonly today.   Again, Erich Fromm:

“In saying this, however, I do not wish to imply that we can expect the present social system to continue indefinitely, and at the same time to hope for the realization of the ideal of love for one's brother….Our society is run by a managerial beauracracy, by professional politicians; people are motivated by mass suggestion, their aim is producing more and consuming more, as purposes in themselves. All activities are subordinated to economic goals, means have become ends; man is a automaton - well fed, well clad, but without any ultimate concern for that which is his peculiarly human quality and function…The economic machine must serve him, rather than he serve it. He must be able to share experience, to share work, rather than, at best, to share profits. Society must be organized in such a way that man's social, loving nature is not separated from his social existence, but becomes one with it. ”

All the more ironic that Fromm wrote these words in 1956…..I wonder what he'd say today?

I meant to include a link above to Erich Fromm's book, The Art of Loving. I highly recommend it as a reality check on what love is (and is not), and what loving really means…in all its aspects…

   I would like to see Zaads Oases in my neighborhood.

I have not read all of the above, but I would like to ask if capitalism is compatible with equality?  It sounds like y'all have some great intentions.  I have to ask though, does this business treat people as equals or is it going to be a business heirarchy as usual?

like Wile E. Coyote, i haven't read all that has been said, but in catching this last part which addresses the idea of equality, i wanted to offer this:  perhaps the idea of equality should be recognized as a product of the ego that comes from the need that the ego has to ensure that no thing can be superior to it.  its one of those tricky ways that the ego has of hiding some sort of fear behind the appearance of a noble and just sentiment.  if we can accept this understanding of equality, then we might do away with it entirely, discarding the issue and replacing it instead with a focus on how we are all in this together.  no amount of individuality can change the fact that we are all parts of the same whole, and nothing about being a part of that whole ever denies the blossoming of individuality.  if there is a need to be equal, it is the need to be equal to the challenge of making a contribution to the whole that reflects the highest forms of the individuality you possess.  for some reason, men and women have gotten this idea into their heads that individuality and successful cooperation are mutually exclusive, that capitalism and socialism are incompatible, but the reality is that in this ultimately perfect universe, there is a place for every kind of individuality to be a harmonious part of the whole.  from what brian is saying, it would seem that Zaadz is a company built by people who understand this and who wish to help other people see the truth of it. 

I have been involved in various business projects and always held to the dictum of the Mahabharata: 'where there is dharma, there is victory.'   That said, most executives do not understand that the way to gain  the support of the universe, is to align yourself, and your business practice, with dharma.   What we need do—actually, what I am doing—is forming a network of dharmic businessmen and woman, who understand business as a way to express and align oneself with the universe, as opposed to a mere vehicle for earning money (at the expense of others).   Earning money is a natural result of dharmic business practice but not its exclusive focus.

That said, onto the matter of turning Zaadz into a profitable business venture.  Well, that is easy (once the dharma and intention are in place).  I think the key is rather obvious (and since I have not read all the comments, please excuse me if I am simply repeating someone else's idea.) The key is in the power of numbers.   Since Google placement is based upon number of hits, and since various Zaadz topics are going to get a lot of hits (from all its satisfied users) then, as per the Google algorithm, various Zaadz  topics will appear on the first page or two of Google—and that has some value!   So, links to high traffic spots on Google could be sold to various businesses (in the same way that Google is selling their own banner adds).   Zaadz could not only set up one company (based upon a key search word), but set up a page, with several companies on it.  Thus, Zaadz could sell click throughs just like Google, since the power of numbers will direct many people to the Zaadz 'key word' directory site.   I have a general (and specific) business model worked as to how Zaadz could generate lots of income—without pesty advertising.  Herein, I have outlined the basic strategy.  (And yes, I am available to be vice-president—and strategist—if Zaadz decides to implement the business model I have outlined!)

Good luck.  Stay with the dharma and the universe will certainly be there to support you.

Brian - I want to be enthusiastic… mostly because i really want someone to figure out what i could not: how to put “conscious” and “capitalism” together successfully without also pairing “low” and “return”. i quit the vc business  (after thirteen years) because making money, the sine qua non of venture capital, and practicing dharma didn't seem to co-exist very well, if at all.  what did i miss, other than enlightenment? - wch

It may be that 'consciousness' and 'capitalism' can be combined if we are able to look at capitalism in another way—though I do not quite 'click' with the term 'conscious capitalism.'  (Rather I call it 'dharmic business' or what others refer to as 'right livelihood'. ) That said, the issue seems to be one of intent: when the intention is to be dharmic, to express your abundant nature in harmony with the world—and do so in a way that brings in money—it is surely in line with dharma.  When the intention is only to make money—and when this intention is valued above the expression of one's own truth—then such a stance usually creates discord.  

The term 'capitalism' is problematic because most capitalist are linear in their thinking, focused on money rather than true value or an expression consistent with the upward (or evolutionary) flow of the universe.   This linearity also curtails the expression of a higher resonance with the universe which can only come when a person holds dharma as their bottom line (as opposed to money).   The thing with dharmic business (which means that you are in partnership with the universe) is that it is more mysterious than linear business.  It involves doing what is right, what is beneficial, as opposed to what may bring an immediately obvious profit.   Thus, when you adhere to dharma the universe (and its upward expression) remains with you, and ultimately brings you great benefit, whereas when you go against dharma, when you make profit in undharmic ways, then you alienate the universe (and its supportive power) and ultimately loose its benefit.   Losing benefit means that you are not victorious in your life.

So here's another take on conscious capitalism and changing the world… if we truly want to effect broadscale change, we need to work change in ALL places, and especially in large businesses.  Who has more influence right now to make change (positive or negative) happen on a global scale?  So - we need to meet people (and organizations) wherever they are in their evolution, and enable positive change.  I like to think of it as intentional evolution. 

My point is this.  Capitalism is a huge force in the world today whether we like it or not.  So, in order to affect change in the world, we need to intentionally evolve capitalism.  And we are not all alone here.  There is a corporate social responsibility movement happening, that I believe we can help to accelerate.  Working from within corporations.  Or as consultants to corporations.  Or as influencers of corporations….

And it can be incredibly fulfilling and joyous, and loving.  Because corporations are filled with people who have a hunger to make a real difference, and to express their true gifts (whether they are awake to it or not). 

I work within IBM right now to affect positive change in the world.  Innovation that matters to the world.  I love working with corporate citizens, with smart, driven, good people (yes - most of them are!!).  And they can relate to the term conscious capitalism much more than dharmic business (at least for now - give us another 10 - 15 years!).   It's a step forward that they can take.

For others, they need a different terms - language that resonates personally with their world view and beliefs.  I think part of our job here will be to “meet people where they are at” - with language, ideas and peers that are somewhere near their worldview, and that can at the same time stretch them forward. 

Wow - I love that this space exists for these kinds of discussions.  Play on folks!

I can't believe I'm just now reading this! It's all very exciting and I'm proud to be a part of it!

Anything I can do to help, I will.

Melissa is ABSOLUTELY correct in her analysis of the situation - supported not least by Pete Engardio's recent  Karma Capitalism article in the October 30, 2006 edition of BusinessWeek and many others in the international business press - and, of course, the action of assuming responsibility is key !

As an aside to this discussion  -  if  Karmic Capitalism stands at the lower end of the relationship scale  -  which Star's son Ezekial has so eloquently proposed - where does  Enlightened Capitalism  fit ?

I didn't read all the back-patting above, but we suffer not because capitalism exists in some distorted form that can somehow be remedied by pleasant thoughts and meditation.  We suffer merely because capitalism exists.  There is no form of capitalism that can provide equally for all.  Perhaps, one could argue, that Starbucks and Wal-Mart are working hard to provide us those lost pieces of the American Dream that we otherwise couldn't afford.  But, this is the classic sociology of consumption.  In the 50s and 60s when US companies couldn't understand why their factory workers in Mexico weren't excited about working their asses off to produce for US markets, it dawned on someone that it was because these people didn't WANT.  So they sent catalogs to their homes to show their wives all the marvelous time saving devises that could be theirs if only they had the money.  The rest, as they say, is history.  Capitalism in a global economy has relatively nothing to do with a community (those stores have long been closed by Wal-Mart and Starbucks).  Trickle-down theories of economic distribution died with the head of Reagan.  Bill Gates may give millions to the starving in Africa, but as a percentage of his total assets the amount is tiny.  And the folks in Africa didn't get impoverished by any effort or non-effort of their own (read: colonialism, exploitation–wonderful byproducts of unfettered capitalism.  Could “conscious capitalism” just be another name for benevolent despotism?  I don't pretend to have the answer to major economic woes–and I like the idea of what happens in this community - but one should try to remain realistic…

peace

Brian,

(Speaking of computers, I'm having issues so perhaps this won't go through…). 

If you think about it, the creation of the internet owes little to capitalism per se; however, to your point, the spread of the personal computer owes everything to a fledgling industry that was highly subsidized by the government (noting but not expounding on the rather socialistic twinge to that reality).  I guess what bothers me most is that the lines between conscious capitalism and just outright exploitation are blurry.  Wal-Mart recently announced its intentions to sell organic foods in some of its stores.  Many people herald this as an abrupt change for Wal-Mart signalling some well-intentioned plan to get back into the public's good graces.  Of course, with Wal-Mart's dictatorial relationship with its suppliers, many worry that the retail giant will effectively push out of business all the small organic farms and producers for the benefit of the few larger companies who could conceivably meet Wal-Mart's production demands.  I like to use Wal-Mart in such examples because it is capitalism moved to its extreme.  At what point can a corporation beholden to the bottom line and to stock-holders force a stop?  If Target or Sears or any other major retailer could be Wal-Mart they would in a heart beat.  And, as any community wrecked by the store can attest, this is no small matter.  But Wal-Mart can exist in its current state because of the deregulation of the retail industry.  Microsoft can monopolize software and bully its market because of no regulation and economies of scale.  If we decide that government move to control the growth of such monstrosities, capitalism can be an effective economic tool for the advancement of all humanity's potential.  I don't think that Adam Smith envisioned the free-market bonanza that deregulation would encouage.  And it is disturbing that as some grow rich beyond the imagination, too many more grow hungry.  Perhaps it is just the word in all its connotations that bothers me most.  I do believe that even within such an economic arrangement (properly managed) even those of us disgruntled “socialists” can find a home.  And I firmly agree with your last sentiment that we each need to decide how we will make a difference (far be it from me to squander a dream)!  And with that, I will leave this on a positive note.  I do appreciate your reponse, Brian, and I especially enjoy the site that you have assembled.  My best to you and I will look forward to corresponding with you in the future! 

peace

Steve

Oh, but if you make it a tiered pay-for-service site as some folks suggested in this thread, I'm outta here!  

Brian,

I'll only say two things and then I promise to read more of the links you have supplied.  First, remember that we are the government.  This fact seems to get so far removed from out every day experience that I lose site of it myself.  Second, I like Whole Foods and they are partnering with a local hospital organization on healthy diets and good cooking techniques, etc.  Admirable stuff and wholey without precedent.  However, in the process, they may put out of business three local co-ops, one of which has been here snce the late 70s.  “One step forward, two steps back(?)”  I'm certainly not for more government for the sake of governing.  At heart I am an anarchist, too.  But without power there is relatively little people can do to effect change.  Even Ghandhi in his way held tremendous power (in his case moral power).  And the development of China is interesting.  It is like the US of the late 1800s (and from what I have read it pollutes to about the same degree).  Perhaps China is Google to the US's Microsoft.  The analogy isn't as far fetched as it seems. 

All right - that is more than two things.

But I have more…

Wish I could join you for tea–perhaps someday.  If ever in Milwaukee we have some great local coffee roasters and microbrewers, too!

peace

I'm still mulling all of this over (you've given us quite a bit to think about, that's for sure), but questions are starting to pop up already.

I'm thinking about the long “Let's Change the World” letter back there at the 'front door' - and now everything you're explaining about the grand vision of the Zaadz future. And I'm trying to connect the dots.

I think my biggest question so far is how exactly we, the Zaadz community, fit in to this business model and ultimate vision….

Obviously there many profiles around here that belong to people who are extremely driven to create positive change in the world (whether through service projects of various kinds, or through writing and publishing spirituality books, or teaching courses and facilitating various kinds of programs for personal development… and many people who have lots of ideas that they're just beginning to develop).

Zaadz - so far - is seeming like it's here as a way to offer value to these spiritually- and socially-minded people by providing a place to share ideas and plans, and perhaps connect with others for various projects….

Considering the profile/blog/social network style of things, this means that the site can either be a glorified online profile/blog where people can express themselves and leave it at that, **or** people can connect with each other and use this place as a resource. The potential as far as what people *could* do and what they *could* create together is wide open - that is, if people want to use it that way. But whether they *will* do that is totally different. Some will just want to make friends and have the most popularly viewed profile.

But with the way the site is put together, and with the options given in the profiles (for people to discuss the books in their libraries, keep a blog, share the ideas and plans they have for various projects in development, all sorts of goals and ideas… people are obviously being encouraged to really voice their biggest ideas and get them out into the world so that they'll be seen - presumably by others at Zaadz who may want to get on board and make some of these grand ideas into workable, beneficial *realities.*

So there's going to be a lot of talking about Big Goals and Big Dreams. People are going to be networking with each other like crazy. Of course, some ideas won't get off the ground for whatever reasons - lack of funding, lack of “oomph” (fizzling out or flaking out), lack of time (or just not knowing how to move forward).

Meanwhile, Zaadz will be growing into this lifestyle/personal development sort of thing… lots of businesses… cafes, resorts, books, big events, all kinds of things.

Is the idea that Zaadz 'Version Now' is sort of like a research-and-development team, except instead of an R&D team, you gather a lot of like-minded people together, they start connecting, and ideas begin to form? Are the profiles with their quotes and idea nurseries sort of like an incubator for what the Zaadz of the future may offer?

It makes me nervous in a way, because I can't tell whether the networking that Zaadz members may do together is actually something that would become a Zaadz project. I can't tell whether the idea is for everyone to help Zaadz do all of these things to grow the Zaadz business(es), or whether Zaadz would be helping the Zaadsters to grow their projects.

Initially I thought I understood the goals and the vision, but I still felt a bit fuzzy in certain areas. Now, I'm completely confused. I actually hate even asking about all of this, but I'm just very confused.

-Stephanie

I am so afraid that there will be a catch to this. In something this obviously beautiful there is always a crucial flaw.

Did you ever read the book “Join Me” by Danny Wallace?  The book describes the true expolits of the author as he cultivates the idea to place an ad in a local newspaper reading only “join me.”  Ultimately thousands of people send the author passport photos in response and do, in fact, join him.  What isn't clear, even to the author, is what these people are joining.  Ultimately, as more and more people question the purpose of what they have joined, the author is forced to come up with a mission for the “cult” that he just created.  So I think that the confusion is more common than you think.  My thought in “joining” was that it was a website for like-minded folks to communicate ideas and thoughts through blogs, messages, etc.  (Afterall, I saw an ad in Mother Jones magazine).  I think Brian has a larger plan and you get a hint of that in reading his business plan and the content of many of the links that he has included in his posts.  Do you need to worry?  I don't think so.  There is an ulterior motive, I'm sure.  And I have tremendous issues with the “conscious capitalism” (read: libertarianism) he advocates.  But in the grand scheme of things I think that it is relatively innocuous.  It certainly isn't the first time such philosophy has reared its head…

peace       

This thread is phenomenal. I'm inordinately drawn to overly heady discussions - so much so that I worry about how easily becomes a distraction. I love puzzling out these questions at an academic level, and love thinking about them, but at the same time,  another deeper part of me recognizes the greater importance of LIVING out whatever system is at stake. But I digress.


I just wanted to pitch in a few pennies. First of all, I'm agnostic when it comes to ideology. I wouldn't consider myself a libertarian any more than I would a socialist, in part because I'm hugely empathetic to the arguments on both sides. I also have a pragmatic streak. Our current global system is no more going to turn libertarian than it would turn communist, and right now we're working, primarily, with a modified free-market capitalist economy. I have my own reservations when it comes to corporate rule and the way in which the rights of corporations can so easily run roughshod over the rights of individuals, but I don't see this as an inherent flaw in capitalism (after all, there were governmental decisions made about the legal rights of businesses-as-entities), nor do I see it as being a hopeless, unchangeable reality.

Capitialism, to me, means only that private ownership, rather than government ownership, controls the production and means of distribution. It's merely a means of engagement, and what determines the end results are the personal characteristics of the “owners” involved. Cooperatives can just as easily turn nasty, and if we lived in a more heavily socialized country, the same would hold true: it's the character of the participants in the system that determine the environment it creates.

I'm getting abstract again, aren't I? Apologies.

Anyway, to me, conscious capitalism is merely the awareness of how we spend our money. No more, no less.  If you have one agenda that you want to support, and you work hard to make sure the products you purchase and the services you use promote that agenda at a deep level (not, say, buying a shirt with pro-environmental slogans that's been heavily bleached and constructed in a sweatshop!) – well, that's what I want to see. I don't care whether or not I believe in your agenda; what I do care about is that the life you live is in alignment with the values you claim to hold.

Because I think there's something profoundly damaging - at a deep psychological level -
about saying one thing and doing another. And I think the more, as a group and individually, we can get our actions to match up with our belliefs, and to be comfortable with this alignment (that is, to chose, consciously, what it is we value, and to then act accordingly), the more healthy and at peace we'll be able to be.

Anyway. Me on conscious capitalism. I don't have any agenda beyond that, and I don't think anyone else working for Zaadz does either.

;)

And yeah. Again. It's all part of the flow; none of this is permanent; it's all always changing. So let's keep working with that. It's an honor.

Wonderfully subtle implications. 

a zaadz oasis sounds lovely

I am new to zaadz…and here is my initial impression:

Having served in  both the military and the 60's anti-war movement I sense a cocktail of both in zaadz.  My impression is zaadz is a business/movement/quasi-religion/do-good club.

It would not shock me if a zaadz “bible” were produced at some point.

Am I mistaking enthusiasm for an evolving dogma?

Hi Brian,

I enjoy the Zaadz experience and Zaadz community. I'm the founder of alonovo.com (http://www.alonovo.com). We provide a corporate behavior (corporate social responsibility) front end to amazon. I'm really hoping we might eventually work together, as conscious consumerism sounds great, but is a monumental undertaking that requires significant mass to accomplish.

Our work at alonovo.com, is to inform the consumer with respect to corporate behavior. Fundamentally everyone in the Zaadz community has natural affinity for products that come from “Good Business”. When we can build that affinity for everyone, companies like Peace Cereal, Seventh Generation, Green Mountain Coffee and others will be rewarded with greater revenue and profitability and will cause other businesses to evolve to adopt practices that create value for society (as opposed to externalizing their costs –making us pay to clean up their pollution, protect their property outside the U.S. and the plundering of our resources.

This is the theory and mission behind alonovo.com, and while we drive toward the mission we share our revenues with nearly 100 well-known causes at the local, national and global level.

On prior attempts to talk about cooperation, I sense that you and Obi and the Zaadz team are working to provide a great experience for all of us and haven't had much time to evaluate natural partnerships. Please don't forget about alonovo, as together we can scale much faster than as islands and silos.

Kind Regards, George
Founder, alonovo.com
Zaadz Ambassador: http://pods.zaadz.com/social_values_economy

I'm here and on the same path.

The seeds are being planted!

I think it is wonderful! Desire, allow and recieve….the Law of attraction in motion
I am looking forward to being a part of zaadz. This is my first time on the website, I can stop reading all the interesting comments…I can see this is going to be a good thing!

AS the 40,000 @ zaadz  watershed  beckons - perhaps a NEW kind of collective should be considered ?

Hi Brian, Speaker for the Light,
and Sarah, because you were the first to speak for the Shadow, (“out of the mouths of babes/newcomers”!)

What gets lost in Big is the personal.
When the personal gets lost, so do persons and you’re left with a machine.
Anything that grows bigger than its nature dictates naturally splits off into sizes
that continue to honor the person.

We connect with a group through persons in it, otherwise it’s a herd, or a horde.
We want to connect with a group because of its stated intent or purpose.

There is a just-right size for entities in order for them to thrive and endure,
adding life and love to every person in them.

Recognizing when enough is enough requires the wisdom that only comes from
trial, error, success, risk, getting out of the way, and noticing what works.

What works is often found in companies, groups and minor institutions nobody ever heard of before. I’ve been in one for ten years and it is delicious beyond words.

Brian,

  Delegation to others that are congruent with your vision is key.  Building partnerships with others that are 'dharmic' as Jonathan put it is crucial for survival without alienating Zaadz and its partners from making a lot of money…make the fortune then share the wealth by re-investing and re-creating…a co-op if you will(its a successful business model).  Its a way of being appreciative of the people that helped you achieve a shared vision and be able to take it to the next level.  For me business is about respecting all relationships above all else first, then make a lot of money with creativity and marketing of the “good business” which can be more secularized(again delegated to those who are masters at it).  That is the highest service and value before the mighty dollar.  People with conscience will respect you and Zaadz for that because you are really partnering with us the people that plugged into the vision and helped make it happen with our money, labor, ideas, networking, etc.

All the best Brian,

David Sun

Hi Brian,
I am not sure I understand the concept of “Conscious Capitalism” correctly…..trying hard not to let aversion to word 'capitalism' creep into my mind and stay open.Personally though, I prefer 'Social Entrepreneurism' better but more than willing to learn about it……the financial sector is screwed up with this business of brutal profit-making at the cost of ripping people off in an almost unethical manner;I'm surprised its even legal at the first place.How could “Conscious Capitalism” be applied here?
Curiously yours:)
Prinks

Wow. I haven’t wandered over here since the dialogue started back in December. It’s great to see everyone’s still into this conversation.

I have to say the integration of self-cultivation and the entrepeneurial spirit is what drew me to Zaadz from the beginning. Money is a connective fiber in our world. It’s one of those threads that permeates and joins, whether we like it or not. Receiving an income is one form of self-realization. Spreading wealth is one means of spreading self. The more financially empowered the “conscious” community becomes, the greater the opportunity to activate the beneficial and creative aspects of our collective money-Qi.

Cheers!
Laurie

Hello team,

I thought that the “The Big Big Big (Really Big!) Picture”
was about “Life, Universe,… Everything”.

Oh well, this must be the American penchant for hyperbole.
However, you may find me bugging you on this issue of the “big picture” (and on many others) until you will feel like declaring me persona non grata in this here community :-).

I say this because mixing business ambitions with value-charged concepts like “spirituality” and “love” causes considerable cognitive dissonance in my world view.

So I echo Pinks' more realistic assessment of the business world above.

PS.
I used to be in business but I am free at last (on a state pension).

Hello Brian, you said,

you're thinking of the “The Really really Big Big Big (Really Big!) Picture”

If we do our work, I think our big big big picture will have a dramatic impact on the really really big big picture. :)

Thanks, that clarifies the relation ship between pictures with magnitude :-)

But seriously, I do agree that there is so much talent and energy devoted to trivial, wasteful, and harmful activities that we could have paradise on earth if we can redirect just part of these fabulous human resources.

So I am going with you. But we have to know what needs changing, why and how. We also have to acknowledge “current reality” – how badly out of kilter many things in the status quo are.

I am afraid that comforting and self serving notions like, for example, “Money is a connective fiber in our world” (and therefore nothing wrong with it) are not just mistaken but downright dangerous because they blind us to things that need to change.

On the contrary, money is the big divider in our world. Who wants to discuss Reforming Global Capitalism by George Soros http://books.zaadz.com/142743/open_society/by_george_soros as an antidote to illusion?

It is not the money that is to be blamed, it is the inequality that is inevitably created by capitalism. 

You cannot blame a knife for stabbing someone you must blame the attacker.  On a side note you should also remember not to blame the victim or survivor of said knifing.

Untill there is Liberty, Equality, and Solidarity for my community and for the world, there will never be peace.

“That until the philosophy which holds one race superior and another inferior is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned: That until there are no longer first-class and second class citizens of any nation; That until the color of a man's skin is of no more significance than the color of his eyes; That until the basic human rights are equally guaranteed to all without regard to race; That until that day, the dream of lasting peace and world citizenship and the rule of international morality will remain but a fleeting illusion, to be pursued but never attained; And until the ignoble and unhappy regimes that hold our brothers in Angola, in Mozambique and in South Africa in subhuman bondage have been toppled and destroyed; Until bigotry and prejudice and malicious and inhuman self-interest have been replaced by understanding and tolerance and good-will; Until all Africans stand and speak as free beings, equal in the eyes of all men, as they are in the eyes of Heaven; Until that day, the African continent will not know peace. We Africans will fight, if necessary, and we know that we shall win, as we are confident in the victory of good over evil.”
-Haile Selassie

A pure free market does not provide a social safety net for those that for whatever reason unable to cast themselves into an economic darwinism. While Milton Friedman always believed that nevertheless a free market was the best approach, even Adam Smith in the “the Wealth of Nations” stated that for a free market condition to manifest a buyer and seller require perfect knowledge. Simply having price and product information is no longer enough, we must demand to know how a product is manufactured, and were costs externalized to all of us.

I think it is a mistake to believe something as large and powerful as an economic system is a “one size fits all” item. Different cultures and nations are likely to respond better to different systems of economics and governance at various times.

The perception of a free market existence (which is a base from which many argue in attempt to obscure the growing abyss between those that have wealth and those that are struggling to survive) is ridiculous. Long through our American history (where our initial accumulation of wealth was based upon the violence and horror we perpetrated upon Native Americans and subsequently slavery) we have protected the very wealthy through tariffs, taxation policy and in numerous cases organized violence.

While I appreciate the resources and advantages we have in America, we have a very challenging journey ahead to, as Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. so eloquently stated “But we refuse to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that there are insufficient funds in the great vaults of opportunity of this nation.

So we have come to cash this check, a check that will give us upon demand the riches of freedom and the security of justice.  We have also come to this hallowed spot to remind America of the fierce urgency of Now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilizing drug of gradualism.

Now is the time to make real the promises of democracy.”

It is a daunting task and a very small, powerful and elite class of this country has been made even more powerful through the policies of the last several years. We must rethink our approach, and use all avenues to move America toward its potential of opportunity, strength and benevolence. This is why I have spend so much time on the economic mission of alonovo.com which can be considered one of the early pioneers of what I would characterize as a catalyst -helping all people evolve from consumers to actively engaged citizens.

While my friends and peers at Zaadz already have a heightened awareness (and I'm hoping some of my discussions continue with the Zaadz team about being the commerce engine for Zaadz) the real education must occur in the political center where people have voted against their own self interest. There is an amazing quote which an amazing person captured in a photograph and sent to me which reads “What do the innocent know except for what the guilty teach them?”.

We must cast the guilty aside and become the teachers in this new millenium and get everyone excited about the opportunity and resources that we all share and the journey ahead.

-George

I am afraid that I sounded more judgmental than I meant to be with a comment I made earlier:

…comforting and self serving notions like, for example, “Money is a connective fiber in our world”…

I mean to say that money is not used at present to serves as “connective fiber” that binds us as social beings. I agree with Wile that the problem is the way money is used and created by the current version of the capitalist system.

The “devil” is in some technical details here. It is vitally important to ask where money comes from in the first place; who manufactures it, and how it gets into our pockets.
The fact is that money hardly exists in the form of notes and coins (except as small change). Most money  (well over 90%) is created and owned in the form of debt (mis-named as credit) by the  private banking/finance sector.

We are victims of a very subtle illusion in that, handling notes and coins daily, we get convinced that this is the most improtant form in which money exists. We also suffer the further misconception that when we borrow from a bank, we get someone else's savings.

This can be heavy going stuff. So, having put a marker here, I better stop. But we will not change the world without sooner or later grasping this nettle (and a few others).

PS to Wile.
I agree that we should not blame a tool for being misused. But the issue is more complicated in that, the tool is misformed in such a way that stabbing accidents happen more frequently that normal.

I want to step in, just quickly, and make a few observations. I see a few comments from people with some strong - and inspired - convictions about the state of the world.

janos believes that “we … have to acknowledge [that things are] badly out of kilter” and that “we are victims of [an] illusion. Wile blames “the inequity that is inevitably created by capitalism.” George believes that change must come from education about “the political center.” And the entirety of this thread so far is speckled with similar prescriptions.

To me this makes sense; it seems to me that this - this commitment to powerful convictions about what must be done, or about what people have to do - is not uncommon among those seeking to change the world; idealism almost demands this. :) One reminder, though, that I cherish, is the constant question as to whether I know what's right for others in the world, and whether I can possibly presume to grasp the complexity and nuance of anything I perceive to be a problem that involves others. I feel comfortable speaking for myself; I feel comfortable taking ownership for MY role in the system and doing what I can, in the moment, to act in a way that contributes to a future that I would want to share with others. I don't, though, feel comfortable prescribing a new system for others – not to mention the hubris involved in thinking I could even know what a “better” system would look like.  This is not to say that discussions such as this one are not important, nor that raising awareness about what I see as troublesome isn't important to me. At the same time, I do always want to come back to that idea of “being the change.”

For me, global capitalism is a reality. I might dream about a benevolent utopian communal anarchy or a benign modified socialism, or eliminating the use of money or living together peaceably on the planet, but I also know full well that, even if I were given total power to revamp the system in place, I would not sooner want to wrest freedom from people to impose my idea of what would be best for them / the planet / the world that I would want to have that personal freedom torn from me. And so, given this, it's important for me do all I can to live according to my personal values, and to do as much as I can to live them out IN the current global system, in hopes that these values will be adopted into and become a part of that greater reality around me.

I know. This was tangential to the debate at hand. I know, too, that this is only my personal belief about how I can live with integrity. But I did want to offer this perspective, and to point to that gentle reminder of what it means to be the change.

Beautifully eloquent Siona!

I think your idea here is brilliant. I have been following this thread on conscious capitalism and the responses to your ideas for capitalizing on the site. My question is with regard to being big or being bought out. If you go big, generally most business models need capital to take it the next level which means, investment banks, merchant banks, private equity in which you will end up loosing significant control over the destiny of the business. Zaadz is incorporated which means that it's first responsibility would be to shareholders to maximize profits at all costs. That I am sure is not  your original intent, so how do you propose to get big and remain independent? If being bought out is the end game what do you do when Google or Yahoo come knocking will you be able to turn them down? Will the integrity of Zaadz be maintained by the likes of Google who have effectively trampled over human rights in China to ensure their business remains viable in the next biggest economy on the planet.

Overall I think the more capital that flows through the exchange of ideas and creativity and less through the consumption of things the better and at Zaadz I think we are headed in the right direction. I believe that the universe is infinitely abundant and if we remain in spirit we can be successful, and enjoy abundance while making the planet a better place. We sure need a new business model and Zaadz is right there helping to define and shape business for the new millennium.

Cheers.

Frank

Hi Bri,

I haven't been very available, I know -but this post has me excited and a little concerned.  Capitalism isn't the problem.  Integrity is.  I think in order to keep ourselves “safe” inside of our ORIGINAL intention of changing the world (not joining it) we simply need to have great memories (the importance of which a menopausal woman of 53 years begins to understand).

If Zaadz is truly going to be a “new book”; the epitome of integral thinking, then it needs to address the age old concerns, except on a higher level.  Our churches are emptying out at an alarming rate.  IE: the spiritual supports for the blue value meme are disappearing in light of our changing values.  I see Zaadz as a new RELIGIOUS community -if we truly are in the business of changing the world -  does anyone agree with this?  Simply put, all that's happened here is our current religious systems are becoming obsolete and need to be reinvented, no?  And aren't  Zaadzters, trying to fill this niche? Through the internet and eventually in many of ways Brian enumerated?  How many of us regularly attend a sangha or church?  How many of us have let meditation go because of busy lives and passionate goals to accomplish?  The people using this site are computer literate, smart, busy people, I think  (unlike me, who am just a little smart).  But what is the real depth of their spirituallity?  I'm concerned about the frenetic pace it seems many here on Zaadz are living into.  How do we get our clientele to really take seriously the tasks that will bring to their lives grace, ease, compassion and peace in light of such striving?  How do we help them to realize passion in all they are trying to accomplish while letting go of results?  How do we help them to cultivate wisdom better than their mothers and fathers did when the current evolution is higher/wider than ever before?  They have more to do(higher to climb), and yet the basic stuff of spiritual awakening has to begin at the beginning, as in the past.  Self discipline, charity, prayer and meditation, fasting.  Time for quiet and reflection.  These tasks have always been enlisted in helping serious disciples on their way to God/Enlightenment.  Are you, the core group keeping your integrity  in regard to these tasks?  If not, you will lose sight of Reality; you can count on it.  Is the integral life (especially prayer/meditation)  being encouraged passionately at staff meetings?   With the awareness of world as self and the immense responsibilities inherent in that identity, I gather that this place needs to be first -HOLY GROUND.  I define our BASIC intention as that of forwarding transformation to the world - and that we would rather die (at least I would) than see the integrity of that intention harmed by any means of accomplishing it.  We can't change the world together if we don't collectively know what that change should look like.  To keep talking about all of the different passions people have (and they are countless) here on Zaadz without reminding each other constantly of the need to beg God to help us is like coming to Christmas without bringing a gift…. simply to miss the point.  I don't know the answers to all of the questions and concerns listed here, but I do know how easy it is to be a sheep in the midst of a flock, and how a group of people can begin to lose sight of integrity in the heat of their own interior (unconscious) battles.  The charismatic organizations in the catholic churches have all but folded up and gone away because the people came in with the good intention of keeping their integrity, and then slowly, subtly, one or a few started working an agenda and others were too psychologically weak to retain their integrity.  Some wanted power and some wanted to be controlled.  Both  were immature, psychologically and spiritually.
Changing the world begins inside of hearts - one heart at a time.  The task is monumental, because as much as we would like to have our own hard work accomplish the salvation of the whole world, it simply doesn't work like that.  Each person has to do his/her own  unique, and extremely difficult - plodding through the maze of his/her interior - while, at the same time struggling with job/career, family, exercise, meditation, social life, etc. 
In light of our original intention of changing the world I think we need to be very careful with how we exercise our capitalistic muscles.  I think it could be easy to get bogged down in way too much manifestation goin on/ not enough pure, simple, estatic presense goin on.  lets be passionate -not about making money - but about Reality as defined by the sages and holy people of the past.  And be very careful about what that's worth in dollars and cents ( and power).  Money is for a little space, food, fun and for giving away to those who have hard times going on.  Ask any dying person.  I just think we need to remember what TRUE abundance is.  It is LOVE, not things like money, or health, or being mightiy successful at changing the world.  Passionate, yes.  Letting go of results, yes.  Understanding that DEATH teaches us to strive for that which we can take with us when we go - absolutely nothing.  So, my sweeties -let go just a little bit more. 
If such a thing could be, the waves disturbing the depths of the ocean are mounting to the point of engulfing emptiness itself.

Mystikal: I can't speak for Brian, but my entire experience of Zaadz has been an ongoing exercise in practice. We've set an intention of awareness, compassion, profitability :), and integrity, and we intend to stay in alignment with these goals. I have no doubt it'll be challenging, but I, personally, can think of few better challenges to rise to. You're absolutely right, too; we're not intending to be bought. Ever. At all. And we do plan on growing – developing both internally and externally.

Of course, our external growth depends in part on shifts in the rest of the world! Google might be struggling to operate ethically, but what if there were more companies and nations who DID act consciously? Zaadz is definitely not alone and we're not planning on being alone in the future (not that this would stop us :); the business environment we'll “get big” in is going to be different than Google's. (Which is why we're operating according to our values … which we know WON'T change.)  And Mystikal . . thank you so much for your kind reminder, and support, and for being such an instrumental part of all this. It's amazing.

Renee: I LOVE your note about integrity and memories!

I don't personally see Zaadz as a church or religion; for me that implies some path, and we're quite adamant about the fact that there is no path, and that WE don't prescribe any answers. We're definitely interested in doing everything we can to help people discover their own truths and to LIVE those truths to the fullest extent possible, but one person's version of being the change - as you wrote! - could be totally different than another's. One person's version of truth could be different. What we do think is important, though, is that they're following their hearts and taking care of themselves first. :)

 (Thank you so much for your concerns about our own integral practices. I can answer with a firm YES that everyone on the team is not just encouraged, but heavily supported in staying holistically heathy–whether we do yoga or keep up a mindfulness practice or journal regularly or practice veganism–and in taking care of our own selves first so that we can best give to the world.)

I agree, fully, with you that changing the world begins inside the hearts of others, one at a time. That is all Zaadz hopes to do – to remind people to look inside their hearts and to listen, and to follow that bliss, whatever it might be. For some people this listening tells them they need to be more present, more still, and more meditative; others might find they need to do more activist work, or work to change their environment. We strive, though, as Zaadzsters, to take responsibility for OUR being (and our own change!) first, not the change they we think should occur in others.

Because for us, a world of people who are happily doing what they love most to do IS a changed world. I'll confess I have no way of knowing for sure whether this future is possible (it takes some amount of trust in the fact that people are basically good and that my following my bliss won't interfere with yours – though if it does, if I find out my path is injurious, I'm not sure it's really what I'd want!), but I'll also say that trying this beautiful, great experiment seems entirely worth it.

Your point about death is perfect. I'm well aware my own little physical body isn't going to be around forever, and being here while I'm here, encouraging and supporting others to follow their passion and not to squander their own amazing lives, is something I feel so fortunate, and so fulfilled, doing. It is the practice of dying, yes, and of love, that helps me with the 'letting go' you mentioned … so thank you, again, deeply for the reminder.

Integrity is about memory, hm? Beautiful..

Capitalism isn't the problem -  INDEED

lack of  INTEGRITY most  definately  is THE PROBLEM  - & Renee was right to bring our attention to its connection with great memories. 

One of  Yeshe Tenzinh Gyatso's - INSTRUCTIONS for LIFE -reads - LIVE a good, honourable life.  Then when you get older and think back, you'll be able to enjoy it a second time.

INTEGRITY is the foundation stone that must be built on humility

If we @zaadz  ARE truly in the business of changing the world  -  I also see Zaadz as a NEW RELIGIOUS community - not ONE based on the wrong interpretations but ONE that addresses the CRISIS in RELIGION  -  the REALITY as defined by the sages and holy people of the past - as Renee so succinctly puts it.

TRUE abundance is ONLY LOVE, not things like money, or health, or being mightily sucessful at changing the world - & as Cliff Richard has sung - YOU gotta know what LOVE IS worth - if we're gonna build heaven on earth.

Hi Brian,

I have to say my first instinct when I read the front page of Zaadz was to cringe a little bit at the same thing others have mentioned. And I spent considerable time reading the thread on conscious capitalism trying to determine where I was going to cast my vote. In the end I think my goals are not that much different. I have started my own blog on spirituality for the purpose of expressing my ideas and thoughts,  generating more fuel for the collective subconscious and also to monetize it. My goal is is to generate an abundant lifestyle through the blog similar to your efforts and those of Steve Pavlina.

I did read your link on John Mackey and thought the back and forth was brilliant. I am skeptical by nature but open to the wonders of the universe (hence the name of my blog), but I was really convinced by John's points even under the glaring criticism of free market and laise fare capitalist icons. It just doesn't make sense to render all other considerations void in the name of profit alone. Businesses that succeed provide value to their customers first. The next generation of consumers are defining value in different terms than those before. We value human rights, health and liberty, clean air and drinking water, an unspoiled natural environment and thriving and healthy communities. These “externalities” to business are the very foundations of businesses themselves. There is a shift in consumer consciousness that Whole Foods has tapped into that it is here to stay.

Thanks for the opportunity to share,

Frank

“We’re all one” means we’re all one. Forgive my Yogi Berra impersonation, it is what it is. Compassion, a sense of all-are-one in this great cosmic fabric of life, a desire for universal oneness, we are the world - call it what you will, but we can’t think that way and at the same time allow for exclusions. If you believe we’re all in this together, then you believe we’re ALL in this together, even those people you find less palatable than others.

The us v. them mentality, combined with the noble poverty story (it’s only noble if it’s free / not associated with $), fragments society and stalls potential evolutions every day we continue to give it credibility. Money circulates. It’s a neutral Qi available to all. When we drop the us and them idea and just become US - and get in synch with this circulating Qi - we’ll all have greater potential to realize wealth. Beneficial wealth of the whole-heart variety.

A while back I jumped into this discussion with what felt like a light comment, a celebration of the topic in general. It totally surprised me (and delighted me over time) to find out what I’d said was considered “dangerous” by some. Money circulates. Money exists. Let’s get over our sense of poor nobility and activate this stuff toward our greater intentions. It’s like the folks who say TV is evil and shun it. Thousands marched on Washington and heard Martin Luther King’s riveting words in person.

Millions saw it on TV.

How can we evaluate the impact? Sure, there’s a lot of junk on the tube, but there’s also Oprah, Bill Moyers, The Dalai Lama… Imagine if Zaadz got into the mix.

The point I’m crawling toward is this: if we keep our distance from something like money or television because we see them as evil, then we aren’t actively part of the story in which they circulate. On the other hand, when we activate these connective media with our particular vibe we manifest our intention in the world.

I would have to agree with Laurie.  It is way too simplistic to stay that money is evil. Greed however is a very destructive force in the world. Money is an abstract system that all cultures have used to deliver value and service and allow a society to function. The problem isn't capitalism per say it is that people and corporations value profit (again an abstract system) over other values like compassion, empathy and respect for the natural environment.  One of the problems of the current system is that it has been set up as a large pyramid scheme (which is illegal in most places). This allows for huge concentrations of wealth at the top, and guess what folks most of us are at the bottom of the pyramid. The goal of any conscious capitalist should be to determine the correct amount of profit and growth that is sustainable and to ensure that those profits are not concentrated at the top.

As alluded to above the other issue of  our current economic environment is based on unlimited growth. It is not acceptable to Wall Street for a corporation to make a profit, said corporation has to grow their profit year over year,  Double digit growth is the benchmark for corporations worthy of investment which is based on the growth of profit not of the business itself. The market places value only on exponential growth not natural or organic growth. The only systems in the natural world that grow exponentially are bacteria which grow until they use up the medium in which they depend upon for survival and cancer cells which grow at an uncontrolled rate until the host (human) dies.  Our current economic system is programmed to self -destruct. That is unless you believe the earth is expanding. and the rate of growth of the planet  is greater than or equal to the rate at which we are consuming it.

We obviously need a better model. Getting rid of money or currency is not going to help the situation unless you believe chaos and anarchy and more suffering are the only other alternatives. Energy can not be created or destroyed and neither can money. Socialist systems still have a place for currency and there are still elite members of those societies that have more than others. We need to define a system that blends the humanistic and natural laws of the universe together in a manner which is “sustainable” The reality is that most North Americans live a lifestyle that is unsustainable, Is money the problem or is that we have been blessed with abundance and have taken it for granted.

Debate is necessary in a free society to ensure that all view points are given fair representation and to generate new ideas and new ways forward. For real evolution and progress to be made toward making the planet more humane we need to work within the system to change it or develop ideas for a new system. To bring down the current system without any real alternative in it's place is about as good an idea as going to war. Make Money not Greed……Make Love not War……Heal the planet…… Peace.

Wow! An epic journey to reach this point in the discussion - so many excellent points made. I think Zaadz should open its own bank. A new Zeconomy…

Hi Brian,

This is my first ever post so I would like to stay positive for the most part. I came to Zaadz because I thought it was the conscious alternative to myspace. (I would also like to be able to post my music by the way;) I disagree with most of what you say in the big picture. The Zaad oasis and resorts sound like they will cater to the upper middle class who are always trying to buy their Enlightenment. Thats one of my problems with Whole Foods, it caters to just the upper middle class and above. I worked at whole foods for two years.

I think Mr. Mackey is the wrong Entrepreneur to follow. You know him, maybe you can ask these three question and ask if they are part of conscious capitalism.

Why are the plastic grocery bags made in China? Most likely in sweet shops. Ive seen the shipments of bags come in with the boxes saying made in China.

Why is Whole Foods taking 50% of the sales of the Wind Energy Credits? The poor costumers are buying 15 dollars worth of those wind Energy credits and only $7.50 is going to the wind farms. Whole Foods is directly hurting the alternative energy movement. Now I heard that through some fellow co-workers so hopefully I got that one wrong.

Why is John Mackey anti-union? With no union how are the workers supposed to protect their rights? Mr. Mackey probably thinks he knows whats better for his workers than they do.

Oh, and on Wikipedia it says John is a vegan but he eats eggs. Vegans don't eat eggs. That last point really doesn't mater but I, being a real vegan, was a little erked when I read that. So please forward this to Mr. Mackey, I whould like to know whats going on.

So anyways, I think Zaadz has the potental to be great and help lots of people. I just hope you guys are just trying to get rich. Remenber what Gandhi said “Live simply so others may simply live.”

I wish you the best Brian.

Anicca.

Oh, welcome! I'm proud to be answering your first post, and I'd love to hear the music you mentioned (you will post it, won't you?).

I'm sorry your experience with the customers at Whole Foods was less than what you'd hoped, and I'm sorry, too, that you're feel so disappointed by the upper middle class. I'll say that I, personally, deeply respect Mackey for all manner of reasons, and I think he's done extraordinarily well at growing a large business while retaining his integrity. Still, I don't wish to defend or speak for him; you're more than welcome to address him on his own blog here.

What I would love to do, though, is to welcome you again, and to thank you for your beautiful concern for the world. To my mind, it's voices like yours that can do so so much when it comes to positive change… to speak up not to criticize (there's already so much negativity out there!), but to create. I'd love to hear more about what your great passions are, and what gives you the most joy. And I'm so glad you see the potential of Zaadz. :)

This, above all is what drew me here, being  involved with business substituting greed for compassion, for a while now.

It began without me when Terry Hallman, my now colleague pitched such an idea for a new economic paradigm to the US President. He called it a people-centered business a model which delivered all surplus to community purpose.

Since then he's been working on the front line of human rights advocacy. I'm sure he'd be very much at home here, but bandwidth constraints  prohibit muc participation.

His big opportunity came in 1999 when Terry was invited to Russia, laying out the plan for a pilot project which was to last 5 years, create 10,000 micro business and return all investment, in the Tomsk Regional Initiative a USAID managed project.

it wasn't until 2003 that I became involved as a  participating business, gradually reaching the point that my software business has become the revenue generator for human rights advocacy in Eastern Europe where we focus on a disturbing influence of poverty -. Institutional childcare which renders children for the scrap heap often leading to crime, sexual exploitating and human trafficing.

In Ukraine we continue to deliver, offering P-CED as  a strategic  plan for poverty alleviation nationally. Profit making business delivered direct to social purpose in large scale reform of institutional childcare.

To illustrate what we're attemting to tackle, here's Terry with a disturbing appraisal of the current conditions.

 

 




  

hmm. i thought this was “How do we as a community make money to integrate effectively and concsciously into capitalism?” not “how is Zaadz gonna make someone rich?”

I don't understand why “profit” is desirable.  Do we need to be wealthier?  What the hell is done with the other 95% of “profit?”  is it made available so we can purchase more stuff?

I don't get it.  It seems antithetical to the reasons why I was drawn to this site.

Reading the whole 'Zaadz World' big, big, really big picture concept of branches and enterprises and BRANDING (of all things!)  is freaky and reeks of imperialist, neocolonialist conquering and a “tyranny of sameness” that seeks to obliterate diversity of of thought, of living.   It's one of the tragic flaws of the oppressive, inequality presented by capitalism and Western manifest destiny and “progress” and frankly, I was shocked to see this.

Yes, a business has to cover costs.  No, a business doesn't have to accumulate capital profit, which is in direct correlation to exploitation of labor and finite natural resources.

A: “Are you Zaadz?”
B: “Yes, I'm totally Zaadz!”
A: “cool!”
B: “Wait - did you hear that Sally isn't Zaadz?!  She's Tribe.  Can you believe it?!”
A: “Eeew.  Tribe?  Gross!  They don't even have spas!”
B: “omigod!  Speaking of spas - they just opened the first Zaadz Resort in Tibet!”
A: “Omigod!  let's go visit!  I knew I was gonna need my cute new Merrells for SOMETHING!!  What an exotic, spiritual place for a resort!  I'm sure we must be contributing to the local economy…or something.  Right?”

 hmmm - I'll have to reflect more on this complicated subject…    This  “branding” thing is highly problematic.

oh my god - you are alive! and a real person!  :-)  I appreciate that.  I will dialogue again soon…..!  This is fun.

A point about capitalism as we know it. It does not stand in its own right as a social model, but sits alongside centuries of democratic evolution which provide the checks and balances necessary to moderate its most extreme interpretations. Hence we codify what we consider morally acceptable into law which constrains business and seeks to redress blatent social inequalities.  Thus, while countries like the US may have  private healthcare,  it would be clearly reckless to consider the poor unworthy of housing and medical attention and public funding support is provided instead.

This to-date has been our interpretation of capitalism in a democratic context, one in which perhaps 25% are considered as being poor, unable to provide for their own heathcare.

Now consider capitalism applied where democracy does not prevail. You'll find society run by fuedal barons and warlords, extremes of wealth against grinding poverty and the poorest considered disposable.

Our conscious capitalism must address the inequities to be considered a free-standing social as well as business paradigm. It must reach that 25% who are not included even in its most benign interpretations .

It has as a priority to address the  urgent social  issues at the current extremes of exclusion and this is why my efforts are both those of social enterprise and social (conscious) capitalism, which targets those left out of the current paradigm to level the playing field. Tradition or conscious capitalism will otherwise be applied in a traditional top down interpretation and still fail to address the needs of the poorest.

olen.

Oh, what a fascinating series of questions!

First off, I'd definitely you encourage you to read this whole thread. It's long, but these points have been raised before. So welcome to the dialogue!

I don't experience the notion of expansion and growth and development–or branding, for that matter–as freaky. And I'll come clean. I wasn't always this way. I used to hold tightly to a view much more close to yours; I was horrified by the unexamined ideology of developmentalism, the unquestioned belief that progress is always valuable, the seemingly unsustainable push for growth, and what I saw as the general obscenity of money and markets over meaning and humanity–not to mention the planet. I too once thought capitalism was inherently flawed. It was more than just viewing money as a corruptive force, it was that money, for me, represented the churning of finite raw material (and human service) into something abstract and foreign and exploitable.

So let's just say I get where you're coming from. :)

The question of “Do we need to be wealthier?” is a good one. I don't know. Do we? How about asking instead “Do we want to give more? Do we want to keep serving?” For me, the answer to this latter question is a resounding 'yes.' I have so much–in terms of skill and talent and love and expertise and joy–that I want to give to the world. And I feel that, in giving this, I'm definitely increasing the wealth in the world.

I recognize, though, that, that giving always involves receiving. I can offer a few little examples (I get sad when I try to give someone something–be it a compliment or a gift–and they're closed to accepting it, as if there might be strings attached, or as if they're not deserving), but I think this pertains to the whole as well. If I'm going to give something to the world, to offer myself to it, I need to be open to receiving from the world as well, and to allow the flow of value and resources to come to me in addition to flowing from me. To my mind, it seems silly to arbitrarily deny that 'money' is an acceptable form of this flow.

I don't particularly care about money. I realized, once, when I was broke and essentially homeless, that I had “enough” and would always have “enough.” I had enough to eat and enough to keep from dying, and as long as I could say I was alive, I'd have “enough.” And so I'm not on some path to get more stuff, thinking it'll make me happy, or that my life will be better. I am, however, passionate about, as Brian so beautifully puts it, increasing the flow of capital in the world. The only reason I'd want to have more is so that I can give more, and once I give more, so that I can be open to receiving more, and so that we can build this still-small business into a company that understands what it means to love ones work, and to love the process of giving of (or fully expressing) oneself, and so that we can hire more and more people to join us.

And when it comes to brands… What's wrong with a brand that's loved? I could see that there'd be a danger if the underlying values that the brand stood for were hollowed out, but as long as the symbol stands for something that does still exist and that is still cherished, I see nothing wrong with this. If Zaadz represents inspiration, and that beautiful discovering of one's own greatest strengths, and the unwavering commitment to being one's authentic self, how is that problematic? If anything, it means we must be more assiduous than even in preserving our integrity.

Finally, there's no reason that wealth has to exploit capital or labor. I love what I do and I feel proud to be rewarded for it. My mechanic is a wonderful human being and feels the same way about his work; I love paying for his services because I know his family, I know he loves his business, and because I'm grateful to be able to thank him in such a way. The owners of my favorite local cafe I have a similar relationship with, and my favorite stand at my farmer's market consists of a group of individuals who raise their own organic produce and sell it–they, too, love their work, and I love that I can offer them something for it.

I could go on about this for a long time. But again, olen, I very much understand the perspective that you're coming from, and I very much appreciate that reminder, and I love how open-heartedly you've dived into this dialogue.

For the record, though? A's right. Tribe IS gross.

Kidding, kidding. ;)


Jeff? Beautiflly expressed. Thank you.

My post may have been a case of 'speaking before thinking,' or rather 'posting before reading.'  (this has been a strangely perfect example of 'thoughts are things.' like “oops! be careful what you say because everyone is actually listening.”)

ok. so I started reading the entire thread and wanted to take a little break and looked at the scroll bar and realized omigosh i've only read like one-tenth of all the postings.

all I can say after reading what I've read is that I will stick around zaadz and see what happens, following Rilke's words and living in my questions.  (because that's where life is)  I'm glad this dialogue is being had and that my concerns are the concerns of others in the community.

It's difficult for me to escape my deconstructive tendencies and not label this whole endeavor and the goals of the company simply an extension of secularized Christian salvation/soteriologic thinking as it's played out in late-modern capitalism (let's save my self by saving the world!)
…and then so what if that indeed is the case, then is it wrong?  
Then, what's right, what's wrong? 
.. oh gosh where to begin. too much coffee - too much thoughts!!

ok. accumulation of capital is not bad in itself, but when I think of trillions of dollars abstractly represented in the database records of a swiss bank account NOT being circulated back in the material form of medicine, food, clean water (for basic examples) - i get uncomfortable.  Since 'capital' as we know it today has unfortunately been amassed/hoarded using human slaves and exploitation of environmental resources, perhaps we are now arriving at the point in history when we are beginning to acknowledge and reverse that trend. 

I see that zaadz is simply one articulation of that trend.  A seed of that trend.  That's why I'm here. 

I appreciate your ….or you know what?  I'm going to say OUR …being selective of OUR advertisers and hope that there's some sort of outreach dimension to advertisers that encourages their 'conscious capitalism.'

The brand issue is interesting.  Siona, I see your point.  What is 'brand'?  I understand it as a silly (but real) psychological projection of oneself onto an object, say, a shampoo, that a consumer simply identifies with, and in the identifying with that brand of shampoo, seeks to associate his/her-self with that brand by the purchasing of that brand of shampoo, thus reaffirming his/her-self.  “I choose this shampoo because it represents what I believe.  It represents me.  It is a good brand.  I am good.”

And then after reading all of this, pondering all of this, and especially Brian's comments about jobs, I thought, “My god, what would happen if, for example, I just threw myself into the fire and worked at zaadz?” 

(forgive my post-post dramatic addition.  i tend to use dramatized satirical dialogue to illustrate points.  it's fun and effective.) 
(and that 'having-only-15-minutes-to-edit-before-your-thought-is-forever-etched-into-cyber-stone' dimension to the thread is chillingly fantastic, making one highly accountable for one's thoughts and actions)

olen!

I can't help but laugh with delight at your response. You sound much like me. Yes, of COURSE we're a phenomenon of late-modern capitalism! Of course our idealistic leap toward a better world can be expressed in terms of soteriologic thinking! But this is merely one perspective on what we're doing here… there are myriad other interpretations, some of them better, some of them worse. And the beautiful thing is that you can choose the perspective you wish to take.

Your analytic deconstruction is wonderful, and it is what it is, but once you've made that observation, then what? Are we to just stand by and comment wryly–or bitterly–on the forces of biology and sociology and, dare I say, spirit of which we're all a part? Or do we recognize the truths in those comments and, laughing, accept that there is no time like the present, and no time BUT the present, and elect to live to our fullest despite–or because of–it all?

Again, one of the things I adore about Zaadz is how many people here understand the importance of both engagement AND the truth that there really is nothing that needs “saving” in the world. It's a hard thing to articulate–the perspective that, right now, things are perfect, and that there's no need to “save” anything, but at the same time, there's an imperative, this inward pressure in oneself to give more and grow more and work toward fuller self-expression.

Erich Fromm wrote that “Destructiveness is the outcome of unlived lives.” My wish would be for everyone to be able to live, fully, and to take joy in creation rather than destruction. This is all that I want to work toward, but for me, it's not something that had an end point… it's an ongoing process and a practice and a playing. And capital is a fine means of facilitating that play and allowing me to give to you and for you to give back to me.

I do hope I'm explaining that well. :)

I'm not looking to hoard any wealth; what satisfaction would there be in that? I'm looking to give myself to the world and to be open to receiving whatever flows back. There might be a certain dominant 'saving' (and 'saving'! funny, the double meaning there) tendency of people to keep their money and contribute to stagnation, and, curiously I don't see Zaadz as reversing that… I see instead that we're pushing through those floodgates and releasing those caught pools. So let's flow! Let's participate, together!

Fire can be cleaning. Throw yourself in. Throw yourself in to Zaadz, but throw yourself into the world, too. We need your gifts as much as we desire to give ours to you.

I'm so glad you've decided to stay.

(Living in the questions… brilliant. I adore Rilke.)

OMG there are so many posts, aka, thoughts and opinions in here

I feel to add something, yet most of the previous posts covered what I wanted to say except this

Its an insight all who end up here have,  -  we are all moving towards a shift in consciousness, away from the ‘old' ways of doing and being and forging ahead in different ways - part of this difference will be in the way we understand terms like ‘profit' and ‘capitalism' in understanding how we can work with money and stay ethical and connected to the natural world and each other without the BS that has got us to this point in our world

We each of us emerge fully clothed into this vastly and fast changing world, one which will require all of us to change in ways that we have little understanding of.  Today we are just getting a glimpse of what this might be or how it might look and ventures like this one are arising in response to that change - BUT - as change is the only constant, lets remember that our understanding of terms like ‘profit' and ‘capitalism' will also change - what we have now, - what I see from the many posts in here, -  is trying to articulate that need for change into change itself in other words, before I ramble myself out of the conversation the higher ideals expressed in the business plan are attempts at articulating and actually modelling a different way of using business and the terms ‘profit' and ‘capitalism' within the broader understanding of our shared resources and our shared humanity.  Yet we have not fully emerged into that world yet….our consciousness is murmuring

Which is why the visions of spiritual café's and resorts signal waring signs within others, especially when we are all being challenged by global warming/climate change, - flying around the world as jet setters only contributes to that, and this is a realisation yet to be fully comprehended - climate change is not just going to reshape how we live in the world, but how we do business within that very changed world  - its going to force massive change in everything we do -  when confronted by the knowledge of our fast changing world, changes within business and our spiritually, very often become surface level changes only. I've seen it often enough to recognise it now - which is why we have a world standing of the brink of so many crisis, like resource depletion, endless war of terror, etc….and that's the danger, I think many are trying to articulate - business try to make green changes in face of climate change, while never ever being green before, all they really do is make surface level feel good changes, but continue to keep on in the same business as usual way i.e. carbon credits are a good guilt free, feel good while you continue to pollute example - and people are making money and ‘profit' from it.

Our notions of business must, penetrate deeper than the surface of spiritual cafes and resorts - we are all being challenged, and websites like this one are birthed as a responses to this challenge - and as this forum has shown, it brings together a giant mind/heart of ideas and experience from the collective, that can be shared regarding the next steps - because we all know that real wealth, real profit, and real business, to be ‘successful' has to be  ‘shared' with everyone/community in some form or another  - i.e everyone benefits in the long run - we have, after all huge historic examples of what NOT to do and how NOT to be within the capitalistic framework

So concepts like ‘profit' and ‘capitalism' will change as we change.  We are like pioneers in a new world of unchartered terrain moving through old concepts and beliefs, transforming them and evolving them into the new - and as it grows our ideas will change, and once we have broken through the barrier of our own thinking we will then be able to transmute the negative connotations of ‘profit' and capitalism into something that we have not yet fully grasped, enough to articulate into a clear vision - and as we do each vision changes and grows

What an incredibly exciting world of possibilities, potentials and adventure awaits all of us who now see the need for change, - that's a constant vision actually - thanks for planting the seed   LOL

Thank you, unity1. And while I could write a similar essay following yours, instead I'll just underline this:

So concepts like ‘profit' and ‘capitalism' will change as we change.

Yes. That's perfect.

I am wondering, what guards are in place to protect against groupthink?

“what guards are in place to protect against groupthink?”

critical thinking. semi-transparency. serendipity and then some.

hey dear friends,

have been out of the loop here, but not out of the mix.

new from mr. hawken:

Blessed Unrest

bu video @ bioneers

“The social justice movement, environmental movement and indigenous movements are intertwining and morphing, and are becoming the largest social movement in the history of the world. They are, in essence, humanity's immune response to political corruption, economic disease, and ecological degradation.” 

~ph

related interviews:

The Global Economy's Immune System

Blessed Unrest

want more?

To Remake the World, by Paul Hawken

hi this is my second day here and like sarah i dont want to overreach, also theres so much in this blog i havent read,i dont want to assume a point of view,yet.. but I was quite impressed by the point pixelleater made after 111 days, about homogenisation.The last three towns looked alike….what happens is the environment gets imposed on, what about its inherent local flavour, also of its people,materials, vegetation,fauna etc. the fascinating essence of biodiversity will get wiped out by standardisation - even if by whole foods which will get relegated to shelves.Its a long time since i've been to america now, but i can get the vibe…can our equation with the planet survive standardisation?of any kind spiritual or otherwise.

I've read a little more of this thread and It would be hard to over look siona's word phenomenal.
I apologise for picking a post at random, again, this blogs big ( and ought to be read) . Ocean your post 238 days later is farreaching . i do agree with you abt every thing except I have to be vegan myself. thats all of another topic and I dont know if this threads the place to talk abt that.

And for many days since my post  theres no any post. out of the blue it was so if i may alter the threat of irrelevance - The point i wanted to make about standardisation is that big businesses tend to replicate. The same module reaches different places/evirons, and takes its prepackaged culture over. wouldnt this impose on the inherent value of any given place which submerged it may allready be. my question is, is there a big business that will not inflict and may even revive? I wonder if this issue has come up and if anyone has any observations?

valli!

Thank you so much for both your notes; your first question was wonderful and I'm so glad you added the nudge for a follow-up.

I'll speak personally (what other way is there?). Standardization is something that definitely concerns me. I'm no more a fan of those giant box stores and the trend toward American monoculture than you. What I've loved seeing over the past few years, though, is a dedicated return to the local, from the slow-food movement to 100-mile eating to a renewed interest in community happenings. I don't think we can ever rid ourselves of what is local to a place, even if we wanted to. Geography is necessary, and has a way of making itself know.

I used to be much more concerned. When I watched television or read the papers, everything sounds the same–the whole of the country (and the world) is reported with the same headlines–and I believed these stories for a long time. I've found that actually visiting places, though, reveals an entirely different picture. Even areas that share values (and I daresay it's a perfectly legitimate concern to worry about the values of, say, a corporate mainstream!) have unique ways of expressing them; I've found, traveling across the US, that those little towns all have their own histories and stories and very, very different flavors. So I'd encourage looking at personal experience rather than listening to what others say. When I go outside in my own neighborhood I find hundreds of micro-cultures. They might not get stories written about them, but they exist–and in some ways are all the more powerful because of how 'unseen' they are.

But I'm getting off topic. You mentioned spiritual standardization. At Zaadz, we're pretty emphatic about the fact that, as far as we're concerned, everyone has their own unique path, and that, as individuals, it's our job to discover what our own path is. (Dave has a quote by the Daiai Lama in his signature that reads “People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they're not on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost.”) And so I'm not personally concerned about pushing an agenda of spiritual standardization. In any case, I'm not sure I even *could* standardize my own spirituality, even if I wanted to! And I think this goes for many others as well.

You also mentioned big business. Again, for me this comes back to the values around which the company is built. What might happen if a business builds uniqueness and authenticity and personal freedom into its culture? What if autonomy and integrity and expression is values more than conformity to some other set of values? What if offshoots and branches are encouraged to respect and enhance the unique geographies they're a part of? This makes beautiful sense to me; what works in one area, and what makes one group happy, may not at all pertain to another.

Obviously I don't have any answers. Obviously we're all playing on the path. But you–and every other Zaadzster, and every other human being on the planet–are a part of discovering this, and I think it's wonderful that we might all participate in the process.

So thank you, valli. I can't imagine I did much by way of “answering” your question, but answers are such dead ends. :) I like better the idea of keeping this question alive.

presto

this question is alive.  and siona its good to know people like you are behind zaads, iam gettin quite addicted to it. Even i like to think things through,only its going to take more reading this big blog. it would be interesting to postfix this thread with a neat little overview.

i see what you mean about the slow food movement etc. and  the net is perhaps quite reversing the mainstrem medias churn, al least to someone who is looking . and listening.
 I was thinking that as well, it makes beautiful sense if offshoots and branches are encouraged to respect and enhance the unique geographies they are part of.

no nudge no me. Iam ready to loose that tag too ;-) heres my thought for the day -
I wonder if you've had issues of regulation with a community like zaads that is growing fast.  people out of line, playing politics, subversive or incriminating. not the silly things, but schematic stuff. In my brief encounters people have been sensitive and mindful . It is a great thing perhaps if theres no regulation required at all and theres inherent googwill. quite utopian a new paradigm. thankyou

Is consciousness bad? Its got itself franchised in every single entity in reality!!!!!!!! Arghhhhhhhh!+! Its not every street corner, its every where!!!!! Somebody needs to alert the government and get some frikken Decentralization on the Mother she’s too powerful!!!!

Why do have guilt about becoming we are inherently within? All pervasive and ever present?

I believe something can only grow as well as the seed that is planted. Naturally, with most new dynamics like being a global business, its initial mutation and growth is somewhat unintelligent.

Fear not, folks.

Nobody on this earth has ever created a business that has become a complete global domination. There IS a reason for this. Would Mother allow it? No, she seems to move on from that which reaches a fixated point in a ego evolution. That dies and something better arises.

Give your full support to zaadz.. help it reach its full evolution. We have nothing to fear, even its death. Lets help this community organision see what it can do.

I have a suggestion I haven’t read so far that I think could be of benefit:

0. Create an area that houses the following pods,
1. Create a pod for people who love to design zPro pods.
2. Create a pod where people who love certain spiritual teachers (not found on Zaadz) can join together and petition and formulate ways to attract those teachers to Zaadz
3. Create an offering ($ package) where Zaadz designers can work with the Zaadz inviters to integrate more great teachers with this space
4. Pay the designers, inviters and zaadz
5. Help bridge the gap for all the teachers we would love to connect with Zaadz style

6. throw cosmicbdog a frikken bone if this works out ;)

. She cleanses all that reaches its

sure conciousness is frikken bad! its got itself franchised in every single entity in reality. how much more of a standardised prototype can you have. the mother aint powerful at all, she's the death of awareness. that franchised entity is the conscious self and awareness goes beyond that. which is totally the spiritual point of anything.
fantastic perspective though,cosmicbdog. it expands two things, one sequential and the other out of the blue.
one is, there really is no gap between stansardisation of the people involved and the big businesses, institutions that they run. major implications,no?
the other thing - i qoute olen ' having only fifteen minutes to edit before your thought is forever etched into cyberstone, dimention to the thread is chillingly fantastic, making one highly accountable for ones thoughts and actions'. Siona felt that way too and i was thinking exactly that . good sensibility. but unfinished
you come along and say why do we have any  guilt about what we are inherently within? (out of the blue). heres consciousness addin up, 1,2,3,4. and voila you have expanded consciouness, which is awareness. we've defrachised the entity.
the mother in the picture rocks =)

hehehe right on !

In my opinion, new world order is innevitable… as it is below, as it is above. Consciousness, ever present inside every part of the world. Consciousness, that which came before form IS everywhere. Form, attempting to mirror the consciousness it came from it will attempt complete control of the whole world. Our role is to decide which organisations we grant this power to, and which ones we do not.

I think many conscious people get their frustration with big business intertwined with corruption. Big business doesn’t necesarrily equal corruption, but the hard thing is, what business/gov has ever tried to reach global domination that is not riddled with ego and corruption? I’ve yet to hear of one, and so the skepticism is understandable. Zaadz is attempting to be this light the world has yet to see and we members are the soil and nutrients that will make it a reality.

It is us, the soil and nutrients that hold back our love that give rise to corruption. It is our own lack and connectedness that gives rise to hidden agendas because we are holding back, they are forced to try and suck the life out of us. It is because we don’t trust in ourselves and each other that we even make it possible to fear something manifesting we are not connected with. It is because people don’t trust one another, that our leaders have no reason to want to be kind and loving. Think about it… if you had all this money and power in the world, and you felt everyone who hadn’t attained that power thought you were a cheat, scum, liar, etc etc, would you want to do the right thing for humanity? The most corrupt, disconnected, selfish people need our love more than anyone. I just don’t believe they know any other way and its easy to think the world is a playground of backstabbing leeches once you’ve got the ball rolling in that direction.

Wow!  A bit late arriving at this party but what fun!!!  Grand stuff here.

My question at this late date … Zaadz intends on changing the world.  A very noble undertaking.

Have we not already done this … but the world doesn't know it yet?

What I see here is passion, integrity, innovation and commitment to purpose … to make things better … to engineer a relationship model that's self-sustaining and mutually beneficial to everyone. 

This is a cooperative … where everyone wins.

Haven't read it all, but posting this just incase it hasn't been addressed yet, which it wasn't when I originally posted about this.

http://skeye.zaadz.com/blog/2007/5/lets_talk_sustainability

I would really appreciate responses that address the 'growth' and size issue.

Thanks, Skeye   :)

Hi there Skeye, I had a read of your blog and agree with mostly everything you have said. You asked for evidence of growth saying:

“Nothing on a mass scale is ‘sustainable’ … I will keep saying this, because so far no one has shown me this is false.”.

Well…

Nothing gets more mass scale than consciousness and it works very well. Like I said a few posts before, its everywhere, infinitely expanding and all pervasive. Seems to be running fine without a hitch and is eternally sustainable.

The keys to sustainability are all found inside. Consciousness, THE franchise we all have a slice of. Naturally, we haven’t been bombarded with successes of external sustainability because no doubt, most of the worlds solution creators are severely disconnected and still infants on the journey. Sure, people practice meditation and there are some really amazingly connected beings on the earth plane… but truly bringing out a pure reflection of that consciousness into the world of matter? Ahh, this is a whole new challenge…

I’m passionate about talking about sustainability… but sustainability is all around us and shouldn’t need a person to show where and how it exists.

At any point, any organism on this plane could shift its ways to becoming more sustainable because consciousness is in everything. So the code, the blueprint, the way to sustainability is inherently known within all things and all anything need do in order to reach a higher level of sustainability is tap in the infinite supply inside, hold onto that feeling and the outside world will present options that attune to this new abundant supply found inside. All things know how to survive and to the survivor, that is sustainability.

I think sustainability promoters need to really spend some time within. Because I get the feeling the sustainers are wanting this abundant world, yet are coming from so much fear and lack. The corrupt ones at the top, sure, they need to sit with themselves and consider how they are raping energies for their own gain, but in the same breath, sustainability promoters must ensure they are coming from a position of incentive if they expect there to be actual negatiations between the rallyers and pillagers. Until then, the few at the top just see these weak sort of people running to them continually with no greater benefit to the few at the top while wanting them to hand over all the personal gain they have achieved. In their mind, I think all they can see is people who haven’t attained power in the world running to them with their pretend global problems as a way of cutting the people with power down. I think many men would rather die then give up what they have achieved and so coming to them with the attitude of “your actions are hurting these people, or this forest” etc doesn’t really motivate them to change unless they’ve got a really big heart. Some of them can have their heart strings pulled, but mostly, they operate purely on incentive.

I imagine most corrupt beings on this planet don’t have much faith in the heart. They are at the point where they don’t see life in the world, they see competition. Then we alternative beings come along with this higher ideal and oppose them, simply adding fuel to their already competitively geared reality. We think we’re helping by going against them, but underneath I feel a lot of the time our rallies and oppositions just help them see even more so how much the world is out to challenge or stop them achieving what they want.

IF you want to make a difference to big business, create an incentive. Come from abundance instead of infecting them with more problems and lack they are already trying so hard to escape from, hence why they probably try so hard to create so much wealth and domination. The rich man doesn’t trust his brothers, so he needs to get a big headstart so that when he can’t produce valuable things anymore, he will be able to take care of himself in this selfish world. Its our role to show how we can be supportive now… to teach that abundance is found in the present, not in the future. They’re thinking future fears hence why they are geared this way, and when we’re opposing we’re coming at them with the same mindset. Fighting fire with fire with what you think is fire on water.

Its a tough one not to be a hipocrit. I’ve tried for a long time to not be… but gradually I have found I contain all contradictions. I think in embracing my contradictory nature, my hipocritical self, its pulled me off my own pedastool of righteousness and in doing so, I’ve become truly righteous. I don’t care if I’m wrong, tell me, but I don’t go running up to people any more with this attitude that they are doing wrong and I am doing right. A great example of this is all the people who rallied for the Anti-Oil movement who all got there in Cars and Trains and Buses that all run on oil. Do you know how stupid the Oil giants think you are?

The solution in all this is not us and them. They are in us and thats the way it is. When one recognises that I think you move into a state where you are no longer just having a debate, but you’re moving through the world as an equal. You’re not seeing these people with authority as being an different to you and so you give yourself the freedom to act. Thats all it takes boys and girls… action. Action isn’t debating… action is going forward with what you know to be true and making that a reality. Its about taking out that sword of your and cutting up anyone who stands in the way of your truth.

If the objective is simply to win the argument over the people raping the land, that will be the objective and all of the battle efforts will go into that debate. If however, the objective is a fully utopian planet, then these debates become little steps in a process and not that big a deal. The words we speak become words of conviction, and not desperation and they will listen to us then. We must remember that the most powerful people generally are so because they are so desperate themselves. Power hungryness is not a sign of a strong soul, its one of weakness. So there is no point coming along saying “this is no good” because a weak man steps straight into defense and his potential to change is closed down.

May the strongest truth win.

hi keith you bring good tidings =) theres much work to do but it might be fun.
perhaps  sustainability might be the best  approach to the whole arena of the economy, profit accumulators, organic and natural growth, mass scales, all of it.
on the ground, given my industrial roots, folks are constantly asking, why  i dont bring value to industry and businesses and consequently to society. If i talk green, organic alternatives you can imagine how stupid they think iam.
so the question that pops up is why is any product like toothpaste, cell phones, cornflakes, or any company not sustainable. so where do i research this, then i can say this is the problem with a particular business this is how it can work better?
skeye your probably right, i think so. ' economic growth is worshipped like a god - blindly and without any concern for reason '  'nothing on a mass scale is sustainable'.
but whose going to prove that as false? they dont want to prove that, and worse theyll ridicule. so iam thinking smart ready information (like insufferable facts and figures,at times) might help.
cosmic i wonder if the pure reflection of consciousness can be in some cicuitous transpersonal informative way be connected with the world of matter. the big challenge.

well heres a thought. pure consciousness stands untouched by the world of matter, its up to the world of matter to move to consciousness isnt it?
quote ' the most corrupt, disconnected, selfish people need our love more than anyone'
but you cant talk to someone if they are not interested.
so shall we say, the event of sustainability within and without, conviction and information are tools to titillate matter ….

Oh, this discussion continues to be rich.

valli? Thanks for your kind words. I'm here at Zaadz in no small way because I want to learn; I fully recognize that I / we don't have any answers–only big questions–and so participating in these sorts of community explorations is necessary to, as we both wrote, keep these questions alive.

We've actually been quite blessed when it comes those frequent issues that revolve around people not getting along. I'd attribute this in part to the application process–people need to really want to join–and to our community guidelines, which do demand an agreement to speak from a place of deep respect and to honor the virtual space here. I've found what you have–that people have been sensitive and mindful–and I love how this creates a beautiful feedback loop: treating others with respect and generosity tends to encourage them to do the same. So we've been able to allow the community to self-regulate: people are good at reminding each other of the atmosphere and values of the site.

cosmicblog: I LOVE your approach. It's one I very much share–that general trust in the natural evolution and self-organizing process of the world. “We have nothing to fear, even its death.” That's perfect. You've put such a smile on my face. And your list of ideas about using zPro to encourage more teachers to join is beautiful. Consider it added to our own long list.

And Skeye? I'll pop over to your blog and comment there; you raise some wonderful points, and I love cosmicblog's exploration. I think, for me, sustainability is in some sense inevitable; try as we might, we'll never trick reality or exempt ourselves from nature.

I suppose in some ways it depends on the level at which we choose to look at an organism or entity: I, Siona, feel robust and alive and growing, but there are cells dying and being created within me every minute. And even as I die and age, there is still something in me that keeps “growing”–my perspective becomes more broad, my sense of compassion for others, the drive I have to serve and to help those I care about, and even my care for the world keeps growing.

So this is what I'd like to emphasize: why limit the notion of growth and development to the material? Why not shift the notion of the economy and business to more intangible values? I've seen more and more people willing to pay more for values such as compassion, environmental awareness, and social responsibility. To me this seems win-win–the economy grows, but it's not because more is being produced, but because people are spending more money on things that matter as opposed to meaningless items. And I think that has to do a little with what cosmicblog has touched on, and has to do a great deal with what Zaadz is all about. There's growth in production, and there's growth in awareness. I would spend a fortune on the latter.

cosmicblog… i like that… that siona is a lovely bone that I WILL take to the bank!

Hey have you kids thought of adding a marketplace for zaadzsters to barter or sell services?

Might be something to consider…carefully…

Your bastard brothers myspace and facebook have them…

Can we cultivate conscious capitolism?…

wait and see!!! muahahahaha

well it will be great to have something on the ground, non virtual. not too slotted or with very defined functions. it could be a zaadz place or a cafe (here comes the definition) which could facilitate any transaction material or spiritual (sustainable?). actually any definition that is sustainable would transend definition?
anyways the reason for this place would be to enable this inspired virual community to meet on a similar realtime platform. If this intention  were superseeded by any vested interests or marketing agenda, that would be dumb? dissappointing? if not any activity can take place and the structure can be provided, a natural organic enterprice (structurally in this context, not literally like in agriculture) would emerge. would be slicker too   :)
and wouldnt it be cool if people met without the function shadow, that would be a shift in consciousness - exactly the new paradigm sought after, nothing less!  really quite simple i think , if one doesnt loose sight of what its all about.
sonia?

This thread is getting too long. It takes ages to load and on some cumputers it bombs out. Could it be reorganised into a pod?

Also, the dating is meaningless. When was the message 444 days ago posted? One could always calculate it but that sould not be necessary.

janos: Very good points; both. While I don't think the 'days later' is completely meaningless (there are some date-geniuses out there who might be able to easily calculate the information, and it does give some sense of how long a thread has been active for), I agree… it would be easier if comments were time stamped instead. We'll put it on the list.

And I'll look into what might be done about the load issue! I'm a little loathe to move everything to a pod, just for fear of messing up links and access, but perhaps implementing paging on longer comment strings might work. So thank you, deeply, for both notes.


And valli? We have plans for eventual real-world locations. I'm as excited as you are. :)